Other religions are abusive too.,

by wednesday 37 Replies latest jw friends

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  wednesday

  U know, as jw's, we r told the other religions are so bad and r part of BTG. And my hubby knows his history very well and can totatlly snow me with examples of the horrible things done in the name of religion. so he feels, by comparison, jw are not so bad (he cites catholics burning people at the stake) He says, i know jw's have sone some mean things to us(mean is sort of an undrestatement)but i really believe they have the truth. I will wait on jehovah to straighten out he org, if he feels it needs to be done. In the meantime, we live in limbo, sort of like a pergatory on earth. We are not in-we are not out. I would like to celebrate the holidays and all -but he will not hear of it. he said, even if he was not a jw, he would know they are wrong.I came to this site and have found so much enjoyment in reading all the discussions.And i do read the doctrines and beliefs section b/c i feel god exists and feel he is trying to help me find him. From time to time i become fearful that i have left His org. It scares me-"could i be wrong here".I also look back in the jewish times and the people who he chose , weren't always perfect. They hurt many people. yet He kept them as His people until He decided to break connection with them.

  In answer to the poster who asked what kind of doc i am seing-a therapist. he just tells me he a has seen a lot a abuse in religion. he himself is agnogist ,seems to have a happy life and does not worry if God will destroy him"what could i do anywhay if he wanted to" Of course, he sort of leads a charmed life-having money and influence and all. None of which i am ever going to have.

  Pettygrudeger, i know , the hellfire dcotrine is reall frightening if u really believe it. Jw justify that armageddon is not like that-God is only going to destroy peple-not burn them to death. but u know-i see some tortued faces on those pics the society puts out dipiciting. I know people say a loving God would not destroy 99% of the earth, but if we believe the Bible, that is what he did at the flood.

  If we could be just like "back sliding baptist" as they say here in the south, maybe i could stand this limbo. But from what i hear, u can't do that. We have never pushed the limit and celebrated openly anyhting like xmas.

  I suspect i will have this feeling for some time to come It is not going to be easy to say goodbye to something that brought me comfort-gave me a feeling that i knew all the answerrs, and provided a social life also.
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  pettygrudger

  And my hubby knows his history very well and can totatlly snow me with examples of the horrible things done in the name of religion. so he feels, by comparison, jw are not so bad (he cites catholics burning people at the stake)

  They haven't done this since LONG before the JW's came into existence. And even God's TRUE people did some horrendous things in God's eyes. The circle logic is the most difficult thing to get rid of - the invisible scars this logic leaves behind "seems" almost impossible to refute - until you are able to look at things logically.

  In the end, remember, GOD ALONE knows what's in your heart - this I truly believe. I have spent most of my adult years looking at all sorts of religion - never finding one that "fit". To me, each has taught me something. If that isn't "seeking" God - I don't know what is. That's all he really asked of us - to seek him & tell others of what we know, walking in the way of Jesus. The way we express ourselves, the way we are "there" for others, the way we speak of God's love. I still seek a religion that "fits", and if I ever find one, I'll join. Until then, I'll continue to seek God, that's what he asked me to do.

  I know how hard this is Wednesday - and your relationship with Hubby is hitting a very rocky place which makes the burden larger to bear. It will become easier, and many here have helped "pave" the way for some of us. Just keep posting, asking, searching & listening- that's about all we can do as humans.

  (Wednesday)
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  waiting

  Welcome to our forum, Wed,

  So the argument that your religion isn't as bad as another religion makes your religion The Truth? Naaaaaaaa. It doesn't even make your religious good.....it's just not as bad.

  Btw, yes, the Roman & Spanish Catholic Churches burned people, etc. But those institutions are 1,000's of years old. Perhaps if the WT was that old, they would have performed like the Israelites.....beheadings, rapings, pillagings, burnings, etc. They acted in the name of God too, just like the Catholics said. It doesn't excuse the behaviour of either religion.

  You can be hurt anywhere, by anyone - true point. But you can make friends anywhere also. You can love God even in the privacy of your own home.

  "But Lord, to whom can we go?" Jesus' followers were referring to another person - and they felt there was no other person they could turn to if they turned from Jesus. No organization was spoken about. The WTBTS has turned that scripture around so that their followers are taught to turn to the WTBTS.......not Jesus.

  Afterall, Jesus & his followers were referring specifically to him.....which would lead one to believe that one could follow Jesus without an organization, if they chose, right?

  My daughter has joined the local Methodist Church in her area. She loves it. They have so many different programs, ...from child care, computers, x-cults, potluck dinners. She's made many friends, and learned that she doesn't care for some of the members. But she IS free to go to other churches, even leave that church freely, if she wants.

  We never had that freedom.

  Merry Christmas.

  waiting
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  Big Tex

  yes know, Tex. It is jsut hard, having had it drilled in my head that jah has an org.

  Yes it is hard Wednesday and I feel for you. What you need right now is time; easy to say I know but you need to be patient with yourself. I haven't been to meetings in 14 years and I doubt seriously if I will ever walk into a church of any kind. Part of it is being burned out on the subject of religon and part of it is being burned by a religon. Since I still believe in God, I have to also believe that he understands this about all of us who have been hurt by religons, whether is Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims or the Flat Earth Society. I prefer to seek God rather than listen to a religon run by imperfect men. As for what your husband has to say about religons, personally I think it doesn't matter what other religons do. I don't think it's a contest to see which religon is the best (or worst). I think if you've hurt someone in the name of God, you've got a helluva lot to answer for. It sounds as if you are since you are seeing a therapist. I hope he's a good one. You deserve the best.

  There's a lot of good people here with very helpful experiences and advice. There's also a few people you probably would do better to avoid. By the way, Stephanus really is a good guy. That's the problem with the written word, you can miss out on the tone, voice inflection and the person's expression as they would be speaking to you.. Just remember, take what you need from this forum and leave the rest.
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  WhyNow2000

  "So he is not too sorry for me."

  Hmmm...is it like saying to sexually abused person that you dont feel sorry for him/her because you have know many other abusive parents who are worse than yours.? How comforting!
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  bluesapphire

  Wednesday, sweetie, where did you hear of the lady who wouldn't marry due to the no birth control? That sounds way off considering most Catholics are cultural catholics and do whatever they want.

  There are the extremely religious types who after they've had their tubes tied will claim they repent and try to tell everyone else not to use artificial birth control methods. And there are the wackos just like in any other religion. But that scenario just doesn't sound legit.

  Take your time. Don't join any church. But if you're going to believe in the Bible, then know that you will be submitting yourself to the authority of the Catholic Church. They are the ones who gave you your Bible. If it weren't for the Catholic church, all of the New Testament scriptures would have been destroyed a long time ago. They decided what was canonical and what wasn't.

  I myself am Catholic because it is my culture. If I had been born in the middle east I would probably be Islamic. But I find myself more and more agnostic every day. Still I like the traditions of the catholic church and a lot of the teachings do make sense to me. But I don't believe in biblical inerancy or infallibility.

  I hope you find the solution that makes you happy in your life. No one knows the truth about God on this earth for a certainty. We will find out when we die. In the meantime, you can only follow your conscience and what you feel comfortable with.
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  wednesday

  Tex,

  it just sort of surprised me when Steph said that. yes there are limitations to the written word. So far two people have told me he meant no harm so i'm going to take your word. it felt hurtful to me, b/c i have no place else to talk about this stuff.

  I have read every word everyone has said. I appreciate all comments.

  /sort of reminds me of the old song?.". like a bridge over troubled waters..". someone to listen and understand.

  Edited by - wednesday on 22 November 2002 22:36:1
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  wednesday

  Bluesapphire,

  i assure u the story is legit. It was in early 80's i was working in hospital, and sat with 2 nurses who were discusiing this nurses 'dilema" she was a horribly depressed person, but could not bring herself to not follow the pope commands to not use birth control So she felt she could not marry. what was worse, the oher nurse, also a catholic, chastise her for even thinking of not doing what pope said. she was sad and depressed and ill a lot to the time. i will never forget that conversation.

  BTW, what do u mean by cultural catholic?
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  bluesapphire

  Wow that is sad! I have seen some out of balance way too religious older women in my life but that has got to top the cake. I suppose you could view that as abuse except for the fact that if she chose to marry and use birth control she wouldn't be df'd or lose her family. That means Catholics do have a free conscience. The church says, "Catholics are obligated to believe such and such...." But the reality is that nothing happens to those who do not or cannot believe certain things. I don't keep it a secret that I don't believe in infallibility or biblical inerancy. Even theologians don't believe in biblical inerancy and they don't get excommunicated. And they're TEACHERS!

  What I mean by cultural is like for example a JW might be a JW culturally. Say they were born and raised in a family of 4th generation witnesses. Well a lot of the beliefs and lifestyle become so ingrained that it becomes a culture in itself. The person may have doubts or may one day leave but it's a lot harder because it's so ingrained in WHO THEY ARE.

  I find it easy to be a cultural catholic because I can have my children baptized, communion, confirmation, marriage (sacraments) which I love. I can go to mass (when I feel like it) and know it by heart. I can go to marriages in the family. I love the teachings of the communion of saints, the marian traditions. I love the fact that a woman is so honored in the church. And that she is given credit for having agreed to do the will of god. If she had said no, then what would god have done? I am very much a feminist and I think the hoopla that people bash the marian doctrines is mostly generated by cheuvanistic men in fundamentalist religions who want all the glory only for males. Even in the bible Mary prophesied "All generations shall call me 'blessed.'" And only Catholics call her Blessed.

  So you see there are so many things that I love about the catholic faith. But I just simply cannot force myself to believe in biblical inerancy because of all the contradictions in the bible. And thus I don't believe in infallibility.

  So I guess by "cultural" catholic I am describing myself as someone who was exposed to certain things in life and thus it is my culture. But at the same time quite agnostic.

  I don't think I explained myself well, did I. LOL It's hard to explain.
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  The Firm

  bluesapphire, you're on fire!

  wednesday--my heart goes out to you completely. I'd give almost anything to have one of my dear JW friends to even be "looking around".

  Notice the comment someone made earlier about if you find some religion claiming entire truth, run--don't walk--to the nearest exit. It's clever, but not valid at all. Since Jesus claimed to be the truth, did his apostles then run/walk to the nearest exit? NO. Rather, if you find a religion's teachings to be in error, then leave. Since Christ claimed to be truth, know that His church must bear the same resemblance. Would a man serve anyone a glass of wine that hade even a solitary drop of urine in it? NO. Our Father in Heaven certainly wouldn't father his children on earth that way. Therefore no one should be consuming any religious doctrine that contains any amount of doctrinal error mixed in with some truth. And if a church does have the complete fullness of God's truth, they'd better claim it--just as Jesus did. Only the Catholic Church makes such a claim. The nay-sayers say "ohh, well just look at the history of abuses...". I'd say look at the apostles. Judas didn't corrupt Christ's teachings, just Judas himself. Despite the countless saints that preceded us in the faith, some people prefer to only point out the Judases.... I'd also ask why anyone else would knowingly and willingly practice and spread a religion that they fully acknolwledge is not 100% Christ's teachings. That's essentially willingness to drink that glass of wine/urine, and to serve it to their children.

  Thanks for sharing your ordeal with us and know that you've got a lot of support here. Good luck and God speed!