As I was reading along, I was taking note of the quote that SwedishShef uses as his signature, I find it interesting that a man as Winston Churchill would be so blinded as to say such a thing, but I guess we have a fool in the Whitehouse now so it only stands to reason.
I would like to share with you some quotes from some of the founding fathers of the USA, and others that are notable in our history:
"The Government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian religion." President George Washington in the Treaty of Tripoli
"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it." President John Adams in The Jefferson-Adams letters.
"I do not find in Christianity one redeeming feature. It has made one half the world fools, the other half hypocrites. President Thomas Jefferson
"The bible is not my book...and Christianity is not my religion." President Abraham Lincoln to the Washington D.C. clergy
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true...by the wise as false...and by the rulers as useful..." Mark Twain
"A just government has no need for the clergy or the church. The fruits of Christianity are pride and indolence in the clergy...ignorance and servility in the laity...and in both clergy and laity...superstition...bigotry and persecution." President James Madison...author of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution From his address before the General Assembly of Virginia...1785
"The bible has some poetry...some blood drenched history...a wealth of obscenity...and upwards of a hundred thousand lies. Mark Twain
"Civilization will thrive when the last stone...from the last church...falls on the head of the last priest." Emile Zola
"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians." Martin Luther
"FAITH...(noun) belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge..." Ambrose Bierce columnist for the San Francisco Examiner
"ARE WOMEN HUMAN?" A subject debated for two weeks at the Council of Macon in Lyons, France 584 a.d. Debated by 63 Catholic Bishops. The vote was finally taken and women were voted "human" by only one vote.
The debate is still going on today in 2002 in the Catholic church...Southern Baptists...and all fundamentalist churches.
"It is fear...that first brought God and Gods into the world." Petronius
And here is a couple of special ones for the Fundie in all of us:
"I pray with all of my heart for the day when we will not have any more public schools. The churches will have taken them all over and we Christians will be running them." Jerry Falwell
Ain't ol' Jerry just a sweety
And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."
Jerry Falwell on the 700 Club TV show
Oh!!! and I can't leave out our old friend Pat Robertson and his response to the above quote, he's just another sweety.
Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system. Pat Robertson Speaking to Jerry Falwell on the 700 Club TV show
You seem to pontificate in similar fashion as Zechariah used to do on this board. I have not seen him post in the past week or so and then you show up. That is what I mean.
It attacked my own MOTHER! I never attacked its mother nor any of its relatives. I attacked its arguments and it came back (without addressing a SINGLE argument I made) and attacked my family!
I think this brings up a very good point. No one wants to hear someone whom they hold dear criticized or made fun of. It certainly doesn't feel good to have someone speak in an unkind way toward your mother or father. In fact, it is often very offensive and has undoubtedly been the cause for many disputes. On the other hand, it's perfectly acceptable to criticize one's God whom they hold dearer than anyone else in existence. Perhaps I will create a screen name on this forum entitled "Your Mother" and post comments of how I am such a whore and how you're such a lousy offspring. I would be just as accepted by all as the one who posts under the name "Jesus Christ," wouldn't I?
Prove it. That the Bible is infallible, that is. I can show you several HUNDRED examples where it is not, but since you made the assertion, the burden of proof is upon you.
How exactly can one prove that something has no mistakes? What proof would you like? The burden of proof is not on someone who claims something to be perfect. You cannot prove that something has no mistakes. That is proving a negative. The burden of proof is on the person claiming it, in fact, is in error. It may be the case that one or more of you feel you have sufficiently proven this in the past, and therefore need not prove again. If so, that is hardly relevant. The fact that you respond to this thread demands that you again offer your own evidence. There sure are a lot of people here who like to jump the bandwagon. One person uses the "burden of proof" argument, and suddenly everyone is a scholar on how it's your responsibility to prove. If you have evidence you would like to bring into question, do so. The ball will then be in Chef's court to respond. Until then, he owes nothing to anyone.
1And the serpent was more crafty than any animal of the field which Jehovah Elohim had made. And it said to the woman, Is it even so, that God has said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?2And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden;3but of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, God has said, Ye shall not eat of it, and ye shall not touch it, lest ye die.4And the serpent said to the woman, Ye will not certainly die;5but God knows that in the day ye eat of it, your eyes will be opened, and ye will be as God, knowing good and evil. Gen 3:1-5 (Darby's)
25And the ass saw the Angel of Jehovah, and she pressed herself against the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall; and he smote her again.26Then the Angel of Jehovah went still further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.27And the ass saw the Angel of Jehovah, and lay down under Balaam; and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with his staff.28And Jehovah opened the mouth of the ass, and she said to Balaam, What have I done to thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?29And Balaam said to the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in my hand, for now would I kill thee!30And the ass said to Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine to this day? was I ever wont to do so to thee? And he said, No. Num 22:25-30 (Darby's)
Sounds like Kipling's "Jungle Book" to me. How many absurdities are required to change ones mind?
pseudo
edited to put punctuation marks back in.
Edited by - pseudoxristos on 7 December 2002 2:46:17
Analogy would lead me one step further, namely, to the belief that all animals and plants have descended from some one prototype. But analogy may be a deceitful guide. Nevertheless all living things have much in common, in their chemical composition, their germinal vesicles, their cellular structure, and their laws of growth and reproduction. We see this even in so trifling a circumstance as that the same poison often similarly affects plants and animals; or that the poison secreted by the gall-fly produces monstrous growths on the wild rose or oak-tree. Therefore I should infer from analogy that probably all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some one primordial form, into which life was first breathed. - Charles Darwin
Sounds like Rod Serling to me. How many absurdities are required to change ones mind?
Sounds like Rod Serling to me. How many absurdities are required to change ones mind?
Interesting. It sounds like one of the greatest discoveries of science to me. But then again, I've actually done the research to come to such an informed conclusion.
Interesting. It sounds like one of the greatest discoveries of science to me. But then again, I've actually done the research to come to such an informed conclusion.
Hey, good for you! There are many of us here who have done extensive research in theology and biblical studies. But I guess that doesn't count. Afterall, there's so much more "proof" of a "primordial form" from which we all spawned than there is "proof" of the existence of the Creator.
Afterall, there's so much more "proof" of a "primordial form" from which we all spawned than there is "proof" of the existence of the Creator.
Maybe if you weren't as uninformed as you portray yourself you'd understand that Evolution has nothing to do with any "primordial form". That topic is Abiogenesis. Evolution works with or without a creator. But I guess your "extensive research in theology and biblical studies" didn't teach you that.
rem
P.S. You'll do well to note that many atheists on this board, including myself, have done extensive research in theology and biblical studies in addition to studying science and logic. (Hell, how do you think we became atheists in the first place?)
