Ok, sorry how I sounded. I did not mean to sound "pushy". It's just I dont' think you understood what I was saying. There isn't a point on "arguing over people". But there is a point to discuss the Bible- that point is salvation. To realize one's sin and repent of it. Knowing you are so sinful and recognizing God's holiness.Calvinism sounds like a great excuse to be the biggest loser you can be.How in the world can "calvinism" cause you to be a loser? Are you saying that the Bible is the best excuse to be a loser? Yes you are. And that's pretty sad.
Calvinism
by Calvinist02 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
Calvinist02
-
rebel
Hi Calvinist,
You stated that 'believing doesn't save you, repentance does.' But in your first post, you said we are all wicked, God chooses who he wants from us no matter what we do (good or evil), Jesus died for sinners (the evil ones among us I presume - isn't that all of us?). How do I know if I've been called? How do if I know if I'm 'in it'? I never understood all this talk about Grace and how God chooses us no matter what we do. Does this mean we can be the most evil person in the world and yet, God can still choose us? If I know I am sinful and I try to be good, isn't that good enough for God? The teachings of Calvin make it impossible for us to ever get anywhere. It is all doom and gloom. We are all sinners and worthless and will never amount to any good. We might as well do whatever we want, seeing as how God could still choose us because he chooses whoever he wants. I am really confused.
-
LittleToe
The doctrine of election is one of the greatest of mysteries, and also the most controversial.
I suspect, at the end of the day, that most "born-again" believers would agree that Christian berethren are going to end up together, regardless of their doctrinal persuasion. Whether the belief is Arminian or Calvinist, it's in grace that we stand.
For the most part I would concur with much of what Calvin stated, but I hope that that would never make me so dogmatic and blinkered as to believe that only those who have the same understanding as me will have a "good end".
On the point of salvation, I suspect that simplistic statements such as "believing" or "repentance" saving, are moot. They are all part of the process. The hardest part is understanding the terminology, since we had been supplied an alternate meaning to most biblical words, by the JW's (e.g. Conversion).
-
Sirona
Hey LT, where you been?
Sirona
-
LittleToe
Hi Sirona,
I've been riding "the road to hell".I'll post an update in "Personal Experiences" real soon.
-
Sirona
I hope you are OK.....but don't tell me you are single or I'll have a serious dilemma on my hands......
-
expatbrit
Brummie:
Who is Hobbes? A biscuit maker?
It's questions like that wot get you sucked into cults, you know!
Anyway, depending on your preferences, Hobbes is either:
- a cute furry tiger in a funny cartoon series by Bill Watterson(sp?), or
- a 17th century philosopher who made a lot of sense. He said that the basis of human behaviour is self-interest, and so self-interest forms our actions and our morals i.e. what we consider to be good and evil acts or attitudes. Religionists really don't like this philosophy because it (a) explains human behaviour and the existence of what we call evil very convincingly without the need for supernatural beings e.g. God, and (b) there is no need for their "atonement" and "repentance" claptrap which is one of their most powerful tools for gaining power (advancing their self-interest). Thus religionists as far back as the writer of the Job myth have cast this mode of thought as being evil and from Satan.
You now owe me a lot of money and eternal devotion. But I promise you 80 virgins in the afterlife (10 more than Islam!)
Expatbrit
-
TR
The Basic 5 points of Calvinism
1. Total Depravity- All men are sinners. We are totally corrupt and wicked. Our hearts are deceitful above all else. We are dead in our sins. We cannot seek or choose God in our sins.
(Romans 3:23; Romans 3:10-14; Jer. 17:9; Ephesians 2:1; Romans 3:12; Romans 8:8)
2. Unconditional Election- Because men are such sinners, we cannot choose God. Therefore, God must choose us, not on anything good we have done. (Because we do NO good) God did not look ahead and choose us based on any good works. He did it based on His will. He predestined His elect to salvation before the foundation of the world.
(Romans 3:10; Ephesians 1:4,11; 2 Thess. 2:13)
Total depravity? Some people are totally depraved, but all people? Bit of a stretch.
Since we cannot choose God, sounds like a good excuse to be "totally depraved" until such time as God chooses to do something about you, if at all.
Hey Bud, I choose not to accept goofy teachings from MEN as divine.
TR
-
SwedishChef
Isaiah 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
Romans 3:10,11 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."
John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Romans 9:15 "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."There is none that does good, there is none that seek God. It is a doctrine that, by it's nature, is offensive to human nature.
1 Thessalonians 1:4 "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."
Ephesians 1:11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"Never fear though, all who come to God will obtain salvation. He will not cast anyone out, He will not deny anyone His mercy. Just believe and repent.
John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
Revelation 22:17 "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
John 3:15 "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be [spiritually] baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. -
hooberus
3. Limited Atonement- Christ's death was the sacrifice for the elect. Jesus came to seek and to save the lost. Jesus died for His sheep (the sheep are describes as the elect in John 10). Jesus' purpose of dying was made- to be the propitiation for sins.
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." Hebrews 2:9
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." John 2:2