Here are some Biblical points about salvation:
1) We are dead in our sins. (Ephesians 2:5)
2) No man will come to the Father by their own will, there is none who seek Him. (Romans 3:11)
3) The Father must draw that person, the Holy Spirit must quicken him/her. (John 6:44)
4) Those who attain salvation are called the elect. (Colossians 3:12, Titus 1:1, Romans 8:33)
5) The elect have been predestinated according to His purpose. (1 Peter 1:2, Romans 8:29,30)
6) Christ's sheep hear him, and come to him. They shall never perish. (John 10:27,30)
God can do whatever He wants. If he chooses to show mercy on one and not another, that is His will.
You can argue about atonement, but can't argue with the Sovereignty of God. If God wanted to, He could only save one of us and leave the rest to go to hell and there would be no unrighteousness with Him.
Romans 14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
This is a paragraph from the writing I posted above. In case you didn't want to read all of that, I just want to direct your attention to this. Spurgeon said it better than I can.
I do not think I differ from any of my Hyper-Calvinistic brethren in what I do believe, but I differ from them in what they do not believe. I do not hold any less than they do, but I hold a little more, and, I think, a little more of the truth revealed in the Scriptures. Not only are there a few cardinal doctrines, by which we can steer our ship North, South, East, or West, but as we study the Word, we shall begin to learn something about the North-west and North-east, and all else that lies between the four cardinal points. The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once. For instance, I read in one Book of the Bible, "The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Yet I am taught, in another part of the same inspired Word, that "it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free-will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over-rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once into Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few can see clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one part of the Bible that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find, in another Scripture, that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is only my folly that leads me to imagine that these two truths can ever contradict each other. I do not believe they can ever be welded into one upon any earthly anvil, but they certainly shall be one in eternity. They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge, but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.
Calvinism
by Calvinist02 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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SwedishChef
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donkey
If Calvinist02 and Swedish Meatball are anything to go by then Calvinism is a special brand of bigotry.
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avishai
Oh, look, more religious pseudo-intellectual claptrap! Gee, How deep!
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donkey
A true calvinist depiction
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riz
hahaha that's pretty funny, donkey. even though i hate that guy.
Edited by - riz on 12 December 2002 23:57:20
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SwedishChef
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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SwedishChef
Donkey, the doctrine of God's sovereignty is the most offensive to human nature. If you choose to reject the Gospel, it is not my problem. Every man is accountable for his own self. I cannot do anything about it. However, I would prefer if you would refrain from outwardly mocking God and the Bible. There is no reason for it. If you don't like Bible doctrine, then you don't have to comment on it.
As the title suggests, this thread is about a specific Bible doctrine, (the doctrines of grace, or Calvinism) and there is no reason for atheists and Bible haters to comment. -
donkey
Swedish Meatball,
However, I would prefer if you would refrain from outwardly mocking God and the Bible. There is no reason for it. If you don't like Bible doctrine, then you don't have to comment on it.
As the title suggests, this thread is about a specific Bible doctrine, (the doctrines of grace, or Calvinism) and there is no reason for atheists and Bible haters to comment.Perhaps you can lobby Simon to re-ban me? However, I will not quit pointing out that your Bible is a sick book and that you are sick for the beliefs you hold. You and Calvin believe that us putrid unbelievers are vile scum and feel free to let us know that we are SINNERS. So you can judge me but you want me to shut up esp. when I see you talking crap?
Shoot me first you Christian dingbat!!
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Calvinist02
Donkey-
We are not judging you when we are saying you are a sinner. I am telling you the truth. 1st off- The Bible clearly states that we all are (Romans 3:10-14, 23, Eph. 2:1, etc...) 2nd- I haven't seen your daily lifestyle, but by watching all of your posts- you definately are! (bad language, etc..) So please, don't say I am judging you for saying what you really are.
What I believe is true, and you will stand before the Almight God, Creator of the universe, and be speechless. You will remember everything you've heard in this forum and know that- the Bible is the Truth. As they said before- you will be accountable for what you know.