LOL, rem! re: mac user
I think at this point, Clash is just having fun. I certainly am. I am not taking this thread seriously at all at this point, but it is a politically safe place to vent.
Richard
Athiests and Christmas?
by clash_city_rockers 105 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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clash_city_rockers
Skeptic who misses the point writes:
You conclude something so final from the fact that atheists celebrate Xmas, which is mainly a secular holiday these days? You also conclude something so final from the actions and opinions of one person, namely me? And you don't see the error in your logic?
- Your initial claim is that you are an atheist.
- Atheism claims there is no god
- Since there is no gods according to atheists then there is no legitimate reason for any celebration or worship or any deity.
- Skeptic celebrates Christmas therefore he contradicts his initial premise.
No logical fallacy here no illicit major no illicit minor. But of course rem can tell us that since he is a logician. One quick note to rem so have you figured out what motus ponits and motus tollens yet I remember calling you out on that some time ago since you since you speak of yourself as being and expert at logic maybe you are as good at logic as the Watchtower Society.
Skeptic you dont get it my friend, when you celebrate Christmas you violate your own atheist premise that there is no god. Even if you celebrated winter solstice you still violate your initial atheistic premise that there is no god. My point to you is that you are a testimony to what I am saying that atheism cant be lived consistently and because of what you do it is impossible for you to reasonably argue otherwise. Maybe if you lived differently you could argue otherwise or at least seem more legitimate in your personal claim of atheism.
Skeptic has a good point:
And just because people use these pagan toys today does not mean they are celebrating anything pagan or anything Christian. As you said the intention and meaning has changed. Christmas is rapidly becoming, or has become, primarily a secular holiday.
This is sadly becoming more and more the case in culture. Here is an important thing to remember and is a vital part of our discussion. As Christmas is rapidly becoming a secular holiday it is at the same time ceasing being Christmas. That is the more Christmas is secularized the less Christmas is Christmas.
Here is another point to ponder the more an atheist or alleged atheist as yourself argues for a secular non Jesus Christmas or a winter solstice the more he agues against his initial claims of atheism thus he self refutes the claims of atheism and reveal that he hates the God of the bible and would gladly with the speediest of haste, with a quickness as some would say exchange the God of the bible for some made up man made mutant monstrosity of a god. Like Sironas god or Ex Pat Brits god or rems god.
What I am going to do is define to you what Christmas really is using a series of articles from John McArthur
Skeptic writes:
And atheists are just celebrating. I see no inconsistency with a atheist celebrating a secular holiday. And even if an atheist celebrated a religious holiday, which I am willing to do, who cares?
I am glad that you are celebrating Christmas that is good. When you celebrate Christmas you give credence to the existence of a god, and that contradicts the initial premise of the atheist assertion that there is no gods. As far as you who cares remark goes. Anyone who lives in an ungodly way will say who cares, for in matters of truth the wicked whether it is a Jehovahs Witness or an atheist do not care and give no place for the pursuit of truth. This is because outside of biblical Christianity there is no account for truth nor is there a place for truth in the hearts of the ungodly.
In dispute of what a Christian is Skeptic asks:
That would depend on your definition of Christian.
A Christian is what the bible teaches that is one who by the grace of God alone who is regenerated by God alone outside of anything he does. This results in the Christian to have faith and repentance, place his trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. Because of his God given faith in Jesus God justifies a sinner and imputes the perfect righteousness of Christ to his account so when God looks at a sinner who trust and believes in Christ he does not see the sinners sins but the righteousness of Jesus Christ. As a result of this act of grace there is a work of grace that continues to follow up on the believing Christian by grace alone a Christian grows in his walk sanctification and perseverance not by his efforts by Christs works in the believers heart. A Christian is a Christian by Faith alone through Grace alone in Christ alone. This is the direct opposite of what you learned in the Watchtower.
Skeptic asks a good question:
Another question. How do you know your religion is not just a man-made religion like all the rest?
This also a work of Gods grace alone and his testimony of written scripture. All other religions have a salvation by works orientation but biblical Christianity has a no works grace alone just sit on your butt and get saved salvation. The worldview of biblical Christianity is internally consistent philosophically unlike all other worldviews which are full of contradictions and dialectical tensions. God has changed my heart according to the bible.
Expat writes:
So, despite the Christians adopting a pagan religious day with its trappings, it is meaning that is the key.
So, what's good for the Christians should be good for everyone else. If atheists engage in Christmas, it is meaning that is the key. Just because they have some of the Christian toys of Christmas does not mean they use them for the intention of Christian celebration.
Your ignorance of history bleeds through in your response. Christians did not adopted the pagan religious day, no they did much more, the eliminated it, this includes the meaning of that religious day with its false religious doctrines and definitions and abrogate the celebration from the lands. In its place was a completely new and different holiday to celebrate the birth of God the Son come in human flesh.
You seem to miss the point Im not sure if your just being dishonest and surprising the facts or just not to smart of a person to put two and two together.
When an atheist celebrates Christmas he violates his atheistic premise that there is no gods thus contradicts his personal philosophical dogma of atheism or demonstrates his own personal constancy and his lack of dedication to live up to his assertions. This would also stand true for the atheists who celebrates pagan holidays like winter solstice or cow tipping day or what ever pagan holiday that pops up. The atheist for the sake of consistency is not free to celebrate either a Christian holiday or pagan. Maybe the atheist doesnt really acknowledge the authenticity of his atheistic claims. Thus the point still stands.
- Christmas violates atheism
- Atheism cannot be consistently lived
Rem, who is a logic master and could probably give everyone here the definition of epistemology uses ad homs in order to attack his opposition this is due to the impossible task of articulating and defending the atheist worldview and his inability to communicate the atheistic worldview affectively and intelligently writes:
Haha, Expat caught Clash in a blatant special pleading logical fallacy.
Honestly, I think Clash must be a troll. I mean I don't think it would be possible for someone that stupid to actually operate a computer. Then again, maybe he's a Mac user? Just kidding!!!
So have you figured out what motus ponits and motus tollens yet I remember calling you out on that some time ago since you since you speak of yourself as being and expert at logic maybe you are as good at logic as the Watchtower Society? Maybe you can teach us how to lets say, manage and monitor DNS servers or manage them remotely.
You see your silly little claims just make you look foolish it would be wise for you too keep shut or at least do some study before you post your remarks. Diligence in your research will do you credit as far as someone respecting your credibility.
Mary Christmas, jr
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clash_city_rockers
What is the real meaning of Christmas?
The answer may just surprise you.
For many, Christmas is the time to think of Jesus Christ as a baby in a manger. While the birth of Christ is a special and miraculous event, it isnt the primary focus. The central truth of the Christmas story is this: the Child of Christmas is God.
Youll enjoy exploring that truth further in this excerpt of Johns book The Miracle of Christmas:
God in a Manger
Christmas is not about the Saviors infancy; it is about His deity. The humble birth of Jesus Christ was never intended to conceal the reality that God was being born into the world.
But the modern worlds version of Christmas does just that. And consequently for the greater part of humanity, Christmas has no legitimate meaning at all.
I dont suppose anyone can ever fathom what it means for God to be born in a manger. How does one explain the Almighty stooping to become a tiny infant? Our minds cannot begin to understand what was involved in God's becoming man.
Nor can anyone explain how God could become a baby. Yet He did. Without forsaking His divine nature or diminishing His deity, He was born into our world as a tiny infant.
He was fully human, with all the needs and emotions that are common to us all. Yet He was also fully Godall wise and all powerful.
For nearly 2,000 years, debate has been raging about who Jesus really is. Cults and skeptics have offered various explanations. Theyll say He is one of many gods, a created being, a high angel, a good teacher, a prophet, and so on. The common thread of all such theories is that they make Jesus less than God. But the biblical evidence is overwhelming that this child in the manger was the incarnation of God.
One passage in particular, written by the apostle Paul, captures the essence of Jesus divine nature and underscores the truths that make Christmas truly wonderful.
Colossians 1:15 20 says,
He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation. For. . . all things have been created by Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the first born from the dead; so that He Himself might come to have first place in everything. For it was the Fathers good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
A Ghostly Illusion?
Paul was writing to the Christians at Colossae. The city was under the influence of what came to be known as gnosticism. Its adherents fancied themselves the only ones who had access to the truth, which they believed was so complex that common people couldnt know it. Among other things, they taught philosophical dualismthe idea that matter is evil and spirit is good. They believed that because God is spirit, He is good, but He could never touch matter, which is evil.
Therefore they also concluded that God couldnt be the creator of the physical universe, because if God made matter, He would be responsible for evil. And they taught that God could never become a man, because as a man He would have to dwell in a body made of evil matter.
Those pre gnostics explained away the incarnation by saying that Jesus was a good angel whose body was only an illusion. That teaching and others like it pervaded the early church; many of the New Testament epistles specifically refute pre-gnostic ideas. In fact, the apostle John attacked the foundation of gnostic teaching when he wrote By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God (1 John 4:2).
The apostle Paul refuted that same heresy when he wrote, By Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authoritiesall things have been created by Him and for Him (1:16). He specifically affirmed that Jesus is God in the fleshthe Creator of everything.
Like Father, Like Son
Ironically, some of the cults that deny Jesus deity try to use Colossians 1:15 20 to support their view. They suggest, for example, that the phrase the image of the invisible God (v. 15) hints that Jesus was merely a created being who bore the image of God in the same sense as all humanity. But the truth is though we were created in Gods likeness, we only resemble Him. Jesus, on the other hand, is Gods exact image.
The Greek word translated image means a perfect replica, a precise copy, a duplicate. Paul was saying that God Himself is fully manifest in the Person of His Son, who is none other than Jesus Christ. He is the exact image of God. Jesus Himself said, He who has seen Me has seen the Father (John 14:9).
Hebrews 1 parallels Colossians 1:15 20 at a number of key points. Regarding the statement that Christ is the image of God, for example, Hebrews 1:3 makes an identical affirmation: He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature. Christ is to God as the warm brilliance of light is to the sun. He brings God from a cosmic location to the very hearts of men and women. He gives light and life. He reveals Gods very essence. They cannot be divided, and neither has ever existed without the other. They are one (John 10:30).
Scripture repeatedly says that God is invisible (John 1:18; 5:37; 1 Timothy 1:17; and Colossians 1:15). But through Christ the invisible God has been made visible. Gods full likeness is revealed in Him. Colossians 1:19 takes the truth a step further: It was the Fathers good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him. He is not just an outline of God; He is fully God. Colossians 2:9 is even more explicit: In Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form. Nothing is lacking. No attribute is absent. He is God in the fullest possible sense, the perfect image.
The Rightful Heir
In Colossians 1:15 Paul says Jesus is the first born of all creation. Those who reject the deity of Christ have made much of that phrase, assuming it means Jesus was a created being. But the word translated first born describes Jesus rank, not His origin. The first-born in a Hebrew family was the heir, the ranking one, the one who had the right of inheritance. And in a royal family, he had the right to rule.
So Christ is the One who inherits all creation and the right to rule over it. It doesnt mean He was born first in order, for He wasnt.
In Psalm 89:27 God says of David, I also shall make him My first born, the highest of the kings of the earth. There the meaning of first born is given in plain language: the highest of the kings of the earth. That's what first-born meansChrist is King of kings and Lord of lords (Revelation 17:16).
Hebrews 1 again has a parallel statement. Verse two says God has appointed His Son heir of all things. He is the primary One, the Son who has the right to the inheritance, the ranking Person, the Lord of all, heir of all creation.
Creator and King
The claim that first born means Christ is a created being completely ignores the context of Colossians 1:15. Remember, youve already seen verses 16 17 explicitly name Him as Creator of everything. Christ is not part of creation; He is the Creator, the very arm of God, active from the beginning in calling the universe and all creatures into existence. John 1:3 says, All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. That could not be true if He were Himself a created being.
Hebrews 1:2 also identifies Christ as the Creator. Christ was the Person of the Trinity through whom the world was made and for whom it was fashioned.
The size of the universe is incomprehensible.
Who made all that? Some scientists say there was this big explosion that eventually formed a primordial swamp, and...Science cannot explain it. God created it all.
Who?
The babe in Bethlehem. He made everything.
For further study on the wonderful meaning of Christmas, purchase John MacArthurs books The Miracle of Christmas and God in the Manger.
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clash_city_rockers
Should Christians celebrate Christmas?
Scripture doesn't specifically command believers to celebrate Christmas-there are no prescribed "Holy Days" the church must observe. In fact, Christmas was not observed as a holiday until well after the biblical era. It wasn't until the mid-fifth century that Christmas received any official recognition.
We believe celebrating Christmas is not a question of right or wrong since Romans 14:5-6 provides us with the liberty to decide whether or not to observe special days:
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks (Rom. 14: 5-6).
According to these verses, a Christian can rightfully set aside any day-including Christmas-as a day for the Lord. We believe Christmas affords believers with a great opportunity to exalt Jesus Christ.First, the Christmas season reminds us of the great truths of the Incarnation. Remembering important truths about Christ and the gospel is a prevalent New Testament theme (1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Peter 1:12-15; 2 Thessalonians 2:5). Truth needs repetition because we so easily forget it. So we should celebrate Christmas to remember the birth of Christ and to marvel over the mystery of the Incarnation.
Christmas can also be a time for reverent worship. The shepherds glorified and praised God for the birth of Jesus the Messiah. They rejoiced when the angels proclaimed that in Bethlehem was born a Savior, Christ the Lord (Luke 2:11). The babe laid in the manger that day is our Savior, the "Lord of lords and King of kings" (Matthew 1:21; Revelation 17:14).
Finally, people tend to be more open to the gospel during the Christmas holidays. We should take advantage of that openness to witness to them of the saving grace of God through Jesus Christ. Christmas is chiefly about the promised Messiah who came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21). The holiday provides us with a wonderful opportunity to share this truth.
Although our society has muddied the message of Christmas through consumerism, myths and empty traditions, we should not let these distract us from appreciating the real meaning of Christmas. Let us take advantage of this opportunity to remember Him, worship Him and faithfully witness of Him.
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clash_city_rockers
Why do so many people miss the real meaning of Christmas?
The majority of people in the world will miss the next Christmas. But how can that be? How can anyone miss Christmas, given the amount of advertising, publicity, and promotion the holiday receives each year? Because although many celebrate Christmas every year, most don't know what it's about. In spite of all the media promotion of Christmas, the majority of people will miss it because it has become so obscured.
For those of us who know and love the Lord Jesus Christ, Christmas is a time to focus on His birth. But even we can get caught up in the swirl of activity around Christmastime and can miss it in a practical sense. Satan has so cluttered the Christian concept of Christmas with such needless paraphernalia that its true meaning is easily lost.
A Brief History of Christmas
Most scholars doubt that December 25th is the true date of Christ's birth. There is no biblical support for it, and some against it. That date was decided upon by the church in Rome in the fourth century. They had a specific reason for doing so.
Many of the earth's earliest inhabitants were sun worshipers because they depended on the sun's yearly course in the heavens. Most people held feasts at the time of the winter solstice (mid-December)-a time when the days were shortest. They built bonfires to give the sun god strength and bring him back to life again. When it became apparent that the days were growing longer, there was great rejoicing.
The fathers of the church in Rome decided to celebrate Christ's birth on the winter solstice. It was their attempt to Christianize the popular pagan celebrations. But they failed to make the people conform. Instead the heathen festivities continued, and we are left with a bizarre marriage of pagan and Christian elements that characterizes our modern celebration of Christmas.
The following examples will give you some idea of how much pagan customs make up what we know as Christmas.
To the Romans the month of December marked the Festival of Saturnalia (Dec. 17-24). One of their most common customs during that festival was giving gifts to one another. As far as we know that is where the idea of exchanging presents came from. The evergreen wreath also derives from the Saturnalia festival, during which homes were decorated with evergreen boughs. The Druids of England gathered sacred mistletoe for their ceremonies and decorated their homes with it. It is believed that the first Christmas tree was instituted by Boniface, an English missionary to Germany in the eighth century. He supposedly replaced sacrifices to the god Odin's sacred oak with a fir tree adorned in tribute to Christ. Certain accounts claim that Martin Luther introduced the Christmas tree lighted with candles.
"Santa Claus" is a contraction of St. Nicholas, a bishop in Asia Minor during the fourth century known for his extraordinary generosity. He was later associated with giving presents at the end of the year. St. Nicholas was adopted by the Netherlands as the patron saint of children. On St. Nicholas eve, the children would leave their shoes filled with hay for the saint's white horse.
No wonder so many people miss Christmas. The simplicity of the birth of Christ is drowned in a sea of traditions, many being pagan in origin. Even worse than that, when Christ was born in Bethlehem, most people of that day missed it. In the following gospel accounts, we will see six ways people missed Christmas, and learn how to avoid making the same mistake ourselves.
Ignorant Preoccupation
Luke 2:7 says, "[Mary] gave birth to her firstborn Son, and she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn." The first person who missed Christmas was the innkeeper. He was unable to take in Mary and Joseph because he had no room for them. Apparently he was indifferent to their plight-there is no indication from Scripture that he called for any help.
Notice that verse 7 says, "She gave birth to her first-born son." Mary herself gave birth to Jesus. By herself she wrapped Him in cloths. Joseph was there to help, but if he was anything like most young fathers, he would have been of little help. Middle-eastern people are hospitable, kind, and caring. They are not barbaric. They are not the kind of people who would leave a woman alone to have her baby. But in this case, they did. Where were the midwives? You'd think the innkeeper would have known someone who could have helped.
Luke tells us she laid Him in a manger, which is an animal feeding trough. The cloths she wrapped Jesus in were long strips of cloth. Whenever an infant was born, immediately the baby was cleaned. Then the baby's limbs and body would be wrapped in these swaddling cloths and then wrapped in an outer blanket. That was a duty normally carried out by a midwife. But Mary had to do it all herself. Commentator G. Campbell Morgan wrote, "Think of the pathos of it. 'She brought forth;' 'she wrapped Him in swaddling clothes.' It is very beautiful, but oh, the pity of it, the tragedy of it, the loneliness of it; that in that hour of all hours, when womanhood should be surrounded by the tenderest care, she was alone. The method of the writer is very distinct. She with her own hands wrapped the Baby around with those swaddling cloths, and laid Him in the manger. There was no one to do it for her. Again I say, the pity of it, and yet the glory of it to the heart of Mary" (The Gospel According to Luke [Old Tappan, N.J.: Revell, 1931], p. 36).
We don't know anything about the innkeeper because the Bible doesn't say anything about him. Some commentators speculate that Jesus was born in a stable some think He was born in a cave, and others believe he was born in an open courtyard at the inn. One thing we do know: whatever hospitality Mary and Joseph hoped to find, they found none-they were turned away.
Why did the innkeeper miss Christmas? I think the simple answer is preoccupation. He was busy. His inn was full because a census was being held in Bethlehem. The city was bulging with people whose ancestors came from there. Since Bethlehem was the city of David, all those who were in the line of David were there, including Joseph and Mary. The innkeeper wasn't necessarily hostile and unsympathetic; he was just busy.
Many people are like the innkeeper. The chambers of their souls are filled with needless things-with stuff that doesn't matter. As a result, they miss the Christ of God. Our society is filled with the unnecessary, the insignificant, and the meaningless. We spend a fortune to amass things so we can let our children fight over them when we die. And our time is eaten away by the demands our things place on us.
People miss Christ at Christmastime because He is crowded out by a world that dictates what they should think, do, and buy. Like the innkeeper, people today are preoccupied. The innkeeper didn't know anything about the baby Mary gave birth to, and neither do they. They don't know who Christ is and they don't know why He came. Instead, they're ignorantly preoccupied with the mundane and the meaningless. How sad it is that so many people live their lives in pursuit of such, only to wake up one day in eternity without God.
Jealous Fear
In Matthew 2 we meet another man who missed Christmas: "After Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, 'Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him.' And when Herod the king heard it, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. Then Herod secretly called the magi, and ascertained from them the time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, 'Go and make careful search for the Child; and when you have found Him, report to me, that I too may come and worship Him'" (vv. 1-3, 7-8). Herod was the king of the land. He feigned his desire to worship Jesus Christ, but he was fearful because One had been born who was called the King of the Jews. The Greek word translated "troubled" in verse three means "to be agitated" or "stirred up." It carries the idea of total panic. Herod panicked. Why? He was afraid of Jesus-afraid of another king. Let's see why.Julius Caesar appointed Herod's father, Antipater, to be procurator, or governor, of Judea under the Roman occupation. Antipater then managed to have his son Herod appointed prefect of Galilee. In that office Herod was successful in quelling the Jewish guerrilla bands who continued to fight against their foreign rulers. After fleeing to Egypt when the Parthians invaded Palestine, Herod then went to Rome and in 40 B.C. was declared by Octavian and Antony (with the concurrence of the Roman senate) to be king of the Jews. He invaded Palestine the next year and, after several years of fighting, drove out the Parthians and established his kingdom.
Because he was not Jewish, but Idumean (an Edomite), Herod married Mariamne, heiress to the Jewish Hasmonean house, to make himself more acceptable to the Jews he now ruled. He was a clever and capable warrior, orator, and diplomat. But he also was cruel and merciless. He was incredibly jealous, suspicious, and afraid for his position and power. Fearing a potential threat, he had the high priest Aristobulus, his wife's brother, drowned-after which he provided a magnificent funeral where he pretended to weep. He then had Mariamne herself killed, and then her mother and two of his own sons. Five days before his death (about a year after Jesus was born) he had a third son executed. One of the greatest evidences of his bloodthirstiness and insane cruelty was having the most distinguished citizens of Jerusalem arrested and imprisoned shortly before his death. Because he knew no one would mourn his own death, he gave orders for those prisoners to be executed the moment he died. Thus he guaranteed that there would be mourning in Jerusalem.
That barbaric act was exceeded in cruelty only by his slaughter of "all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its environs, from two years old and under" (Matthew 2:16). By that action he hoped to kill any threat to his throne from the One the magi said had been born King of the Jews.
Why did Herod miss Christmas? Jealous fear. Lest you think there are no more Herods in this world, you need only read the daily newspaper. Man is depraved. There are Herods in every society. But there is a greater lesson for all humanity. Many people miss Christmas because of the same kind of fear Herod had. Herod was afraid that someone else would take his throne. Today people are fearful of giving up their own plans, priorities, values, and morals. They don't want to come to Christ because He will cramp their style-He will lay claim on their lives. That means they will have to alter the way they live. The media tells people to do their own thing, master their own fate, and chart their own destiny. The world is full of kings who will not kneel before Jesus Christ, so they miss Christmas just like Herod.
What about you? Have you said no to Jesus Christ because you are afraid of the claim He will lay on you? Do you want to be the lord and master of your life and the king of your little kingdom? That's tragic-His kingdom is so much more glorious!
Prideful Indifference
Once Herod learned from the wise men that a child would be born who would be King of the Jews, he gathered "together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, [and] began to inquire of them where the Christ was to be born. And they said to him, 'In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it has been written by the prophet, "And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah, are by no means least among the leaders of Judah; for out of you shall come forth a Ruler, who will shepherd My people Israel"'" (Matthew 2:4-6). Herod called in the experts.
The chief priests consisted of the high priest, the captain of the Temple police, and the best of the other priests-those who had great administrative, teaching, and leadership skills. For the most part the chief priests were Sadducees. The scribes were primarily Pharisees. They were the linguists and interpreters who understood the culture and history of the biblical data. Those two groups knew where the Messiah was to be born because they knew Micah had prophesied that "Bethlehem was to be His place of birth (5:2). One thing the Jewish nation had been looking for, and still does to this day, was the Messiah. They had been waiting for a deliverer throughout their history, especially while under Roman oppression. However, these priests and scribes were unwilling to travel the few miles to find out if this baby might be the Messiah.
Why did they miss Christmas? Indifference. They didn't care. They had all the facts, but they didn't need a Messiah. Why? Because they were self-righteous-they saw themselves as perfect keepers of the law. In their minds they were all God could ever ask of them. You could say they were filled with proud indifference because indifference is always a result of pride. There was no room for the Son of God in their system. When the grown child arrived on the scene, they hated and despised Him. So they plotted His murder and screamed for His blood.
Jesus pinpointed their indifference in a stinging rebuke from Matthew 9. "I happened that as He was reclining at [the] table in the house, behold many tax-gatherers and sinners came and joined Jesus and His disciples" (v. 10). Jesus sat down to this meal with people who needed His help: outcasts, tax collectors, traitors, and sinners. "When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, 'Why does your teacher eat with the tax-gatherers and sinners?' But when He heard this, He said, 'It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are ill. But go and learn what this means, "I desire compassion, and not sacrifice," for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners'" (vv. 11-13). When the Pharisees held a feast, they invited self-righteous people. When Jesus held a feast, He welcomed those who knew they were sinners and were desperately aware of their need for a Savior.
Many people today miss Christmas because they don't realize they are sinners. Thus they ignore Christ. They don't show any interest in the Savior because they don't understand their need to be saved. They don't understand that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23)-that sin plummets people into an eternal hell. Consequently they ignore the remedy because they don't even know they have the disease.
Religious Ritual
Luke 2 indicates another group of people who missed Christmas: "in the same region there were some shepherds staying out in the fields, and keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them" (vv. 8-9). The angel proclaimed the birth of Christ, and the shepherds went to Bethlehem to see Him. Verse 20 says, "The shepherds went back, glorifying and praising God for all that they had heard and seen, just as had been told them." Out of all the people in Jerusalem, God singled out shepherds to receive the great news about the birth of Christ.
Shepherds were a despised group of people. They couldn't maintain all the ceremonial washings and activities because they were busy tending to the sheep. Yet no on else from the city came to see the Christ child except these "unclean" shepherds. However, two special people did take note of Him when He was brought into the city. Luke 2:25-26 mentions Simeon-a man who "was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ." Luke 2:36-38 tells us about Anna, a widow who saw the Messiah in the Temple, and who "continued to speak of Him to all those who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem" (v. 28).
However, the mass of people in Jerusalem missed Christmas. The birth of Christ took place only a few miles away. It was the fulfillment of all their dreams and hopes-the event that would change the destiny of the world-but they missed it. Why did they miss it? Religion. They were so busy with the rituals of their religion that they missed the reality of His birth. When Jesus asked His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" (Matthew 16:13), their answer was: "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets" (v. 14). All the speculations were wrong. Jesus didn't fit into the religious system of His day. And the people knew He didn't after He gave the Sermon on the Mount.
Religion will damn a soul faster than anything if it is anything less than true worship of the true God. A false religious system gives a person a place to hide-a place where he can mask his spirituality. People steeped in various cults talk about God, Christ, and Scripture, but they don't know Christ. They are lost in the midst of religion. So the people of Jerusalem missed Christmas while they were being religious.
Idolatry
The Romans also missed Christmas. Micah's prophecy that the Christ child would be born in Bethlehem was set in motion by a Gentile emperor. Luke 2:1-2 says, "It came about in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth. This was the first census taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria." The Roman soldiers registered the people and took the census.
Throughout the life of Christ we see the presence of the Romans. Before His death Christ appeared before Pilate, the Roman governor of Judea (John 18:28-40). He was executed by the Romans (Matthew 27:27-36). Roman guards lied about His resurrection, propagating a story to cover up the reality that He rose from the dead (Matthew 28:11-15). They all missed Christmas because of their idolatry: they worshiped their own gods. Christ didn't fit in with them. They worshiped a multitude of gods, and the pinnacle of their worship was emperor worship. So in the midst of their pagan idolatry they missed Christmas.
The world today is full of people who worship their own gods. They don't worship idols like they did at the time of Christ, but we still have idols and gods. Some people worship money. Some people worship sex. Others worship cars, boats, and houses. Some worship power and prestige. Those things are the pagan gods of today-the idols of the twenty-first century. And if that is what you're worshiping, you'll miss Christmas, too. You may receive some presents, eat a big dinner, and enjoy a beautifully decorated pine tree, but you'll miss Christmas.
Over-Familiarity
Perhaps the saddest of all, the people of Nazareth missed Christmas. Luke 2:39-40 says, "When they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city of Nazareth. And the Child continued to grow and became strong, increasing in wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him." When Jesus returned to Nazareth, He was unlike any other child in Nazareth. He accompanied His parents to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover when He was twelve years old. He proceeded to confound the doctors of theology in the Temple (Luke 2:41-47). He spent thirty years of His life in Nazareth, yet the residents failed to recognize Him.
Luke 4 unveils the tragedy that took place when Jesus revealed His identity to the Nazarenes: "He came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book, and found the place where it was written, 'The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free those who are downtrodden, to proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.' And He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed upon Him. And He began to say to them, 'Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.' And all were speaking well of Him, and wondering at the gracious words which were falling from His lips; and they were saying, 'Is this not Joseph's son?' . . . . And He said, 'Truly I say to you, no prophet is welcome in his home town'" (vv. 16-22, 24). The people of Nazareth missed Christmas because of over-familiarity. They knew Jesus as Joseph's son, and they didn't view that as anything special. After Jesus finished speaking in the synagogue, the people "rose up and cast Him out of the city, and led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city had been built, in order to throw Him down the cliff. But passing through their midst, He went His way" (vv. 29-30).
Over-familiarity is a deadly thing. I come across so many people who say they were raised in a Christian environment but are not Christians. Fear grips my heart when I hear that. Over-familiarity strangles conviction. When you've heard something so many times without doing anything about it, such familiarity can breed contempt. Mark 6:6 gives us Christ's own analysis of the people of Nazareth: "He wondered at their unbelief." Matthew 13:58 adds, "He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief." Over-familiarity with Christmas truth can breed a stony heart. You had better respond while your heart is soft, or your heart will become hard and you won't have the opportunity to respond (Proverbs 29:1).
Conclusion
There are many ways to miss Christmas: ignorant preoccupation, ritual, idolatry, and over-familiarity. But behind all those reasons is unbelief. Many people simply refuse to believe in Jesus Christ. The apostle John said, "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (John 1:10-12). If you've been missing the reality of Christmas in your life, know that if you receive the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in His name, Christmas will become real to you. It can happen today; and it's between you and God (2 Corinthians 6:1-2; Romans 10:8-11).
(Adapted from John MacArthur, "Six Ways Satan is Stealing Christmas.")
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rem
Clash,
But of course rem can tell us that since he is a logician. One quick note to rem so have you figured out what motus ponits and motus tollens yet I remember calling you out on that some time ago since you since you speak of yourself as being and expert at logic maybe you are as good at logic as the Watchtower Society.
Huh? I don't remember you ever 'calling me out' on any such thing. Perhaps you could bring up a link to the thread in question? If it does indeed exist, I must have overlooked it, or perhaps I was just ignoring your incoherent ramblings.
But anyway, now that you're 'calling me out', I guess I must comply. Not sure if you realized you misspelled the Latin logic terms. It's modus ponens and modus tollens.
Yes, I do know what they are. It's pretty basic. But I see that you have no problem creating technically valid logical arguments with completely false premises. You seem to know just enough to get yourself into trouble... you're in way over your head when it comes to logic, bud.
Maybe you can teach us how to lets say, manage and monitor DNS servers or manage them remotely.
Whatever, dude. I'm not sure what relevance this has to the discussion. Perhaps you don't know that I've built, managed, and monitored many DNS servers in my network engineering career. What version of BIND do you prefer? Or are you partial to Microsoft DNS services? Makes no difference to me, it's all child's play. I'm partial to doing complex OSPF and BGP configurations on Cisco routers, though. It's a bit more of a challenge.
By the way, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt by calling you a troll. It's all in fun really since no one here takes you seriously anyway.
rem
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expatbrit
LOL!
Clash says, in a contradiction of universally accepted history (apart from fanatical Calvinists):
Christians did not adopted the pagan religious day, no they did much more, the eliminated it, this includes the meaning of that religious day with its false religious doctrines and definitions and abrogate the celebration from the lands. In its place was a completely new and different holiday to celebrate the birth of God the Son come in human flesh.
Clash then quotes an article which says:
No wonder so many people miss Christmas. The simplicity of the birth of Christ is drowned in a sea of traditions, many being pagan in origin.
Clash is having difficulty understanding the concept of consistency. If Christians can adopt an existing celebration and many of its traditions without compromising their Christian principles or giving credence to the previous doctrines, so can Atheists.
If the celebration of December 25 is a pagan holiday to pagans, and the celebration of December 25 is a Christian holiday to Christians, then the celebration of December 25 can be a secular holiday to Atheists.
Expatbrit
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Skeptic
Clash, I will argue with you tomorrow (by the time on the site). Today is Christmas, and I am going to wish you a Merry Christmas.
Richard
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Skeptic
If Christians can adopt an existing celebration and many of its traditions without compromising their Christian principles or giving credence to the previous doctrines, so can Atheists.
If the celebration of December 25 is a pagan holiday to pagans, and the celebration of December 25 is a Christian holiday to Christians, then the celebration of December 25 can be a secular holiday to Atheists.
Expatbrit, that is such a simple concept, eh?
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