Which TV Show, Aztec?
Athiests and Christmas?
by clash_city_rockers 105 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Scully
I was wondering the recently whether all the "festival of lights" celebrations that occur in most of the Northern Hemisphere at this time of year actually began as a primitive "treatment" for Seasonal Affective Disorder, and the depressive symptoms that go along with it.
With all the focus on LIGHTS, and JOY, and HOPE.... plus the gathering of families... the celebratory atmosphere... it's only been in the past 15-20 years that medical science has recognized and named S.A.D. and also realized that light therapy is helpful in treating this ailment (in addition to the usual pharmaceutical accoutrements). Before that though, wouldn't it be interesting if someone had noticed that a family or community member was always "down" during the low-light periods of winter time, and attempted to introduce some of that so-called "Christmas" CHEER into their lives to help alleviate the symptoms?? Without any religious significance to the observance at all?? [It would also be interesting to find out if there were any mid-winter observances in the southern Hemisphere of a similar nature (in late June) because the "seasons" are reversed between the northern and southern Hemispheres.]
What do we think of doing (non-medicinally) to help someone we care about who's depressed?
- giving them a gift or a token of our friendship and affection
- gather their friends and loved ones together
- enjoy a meal with them, make it a special occasion with candles etc
These of course are just some musings over my morning coffee... so I am not going to get into an argument over it... it was just something that kind of "clicked" in my mind. What if that was the real origin of all the "traditions", and by denying those helpful supportive activities to JWs, the WTS was actually responsible for worsening S.A.D. symptoms among its members??
Love, Scully
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clash_city_rockers
Aztec, You miss the point,
The thread deals with Atheist (deny the belief in God, even any God of some sort) Pagans (believe is some sort of god or deity out their even if it is some made up mystery out in space like the Aztec gods of Mexico)
Second Christmas is different that the pagan special secular day of Winter Solstice. Let me explain Winter Solstice is about worshiping the creation like Douglas Fur pine trees or toads out in the local creek and getting high on some mind blowing narcotics or what ever pagans do on winter solstice day.
Christmas is about worshiping the Creator Jesus Christ who came into the world hence all those cool little melodies about Jesus like "The First Noel" or "Go Tell it on the Mountain" or "Emanuel you here this time. The Christmas tree is a carryover tradition from the pagans but un like you guys we dont worship trees it's just a decoration Like the head of an 8 point buck I shot in El Dorado County two years ago,
Cheers
jr
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Sirona
Hi Scully,
You might have a point there! The ancient pagan solstice celebration was (I think) due to the fact that winter was very hard and that after the solstice, the days become brighter. The use of lights was a way of welcoming the Sun back into our lives - He grows more and more prominent after the solstice. This is where the "hope" comes from - the hope of the land becoming fertile again - the hope of abundance.
There is a distinct possibility that SAD is one of the reasons why people felt a need to surround themselves with light, etc.
Sirona
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Sirona
Let me explain Winter Solstice is about worshiping the creation like Douglas Fur pine trees or toads out in the local creek and getting high on some mind blowing narcotics or what ever pagans do on winter solstice day.
Clash, you are such a dickhead.
Get your facts straight my docile boy. The winter solstice is about the birth of the Sun God - a child born from a virginal mother. He is born and has a sacrificial death on our behalf. SOUND FAMILIAR?
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funkyderek
That maybe so but to what extent is debatable. The point is that Christmas has a Christian intention and thus is full of Christian Thiesm
To you maybe. To me, it's a time to give and receive presents, eat drink and be merry. Why? Because everyone else is doing it and it's fun. With about eight hours of daylight at this time of year, celebrating the rebirth of the sun seems like a great idea. As an end-of-year celebration it's also a good time to catch up with old friends and family and to have one last blowout before the New Year's Resolutions kick in!
I know it's probably hard for you to understand, but as a freethinker, I don't have to analyse every single thing I do to see if it may have origins in a religious belief system. I don't care. I'll happily put up a Christmas tree, eat Easter eggs, throw confetti at weddings and listen to Handel's Messiah. I know these traditions weren't started by atheists, but guess what - I don't care! And I'm at a loss as to why you think it's such a big deal. In fact, nothing I do at Christmas has a purely Christian origin, except the name and I'm quite happy to call it Yule, Noel, Xmas or anything else as long as I get my presents!.
Christians celebrate Hallowe'en even though they don't believe in the Celtic gods that it honours. British children celebrate Guy Fawkes' Night, even though they know or care very little about its political origins. Why? Because it's fun - harmless, even beneficial, FUN!Clash, I think part of your problem seems to be that you genuinely can't believe people are really atheists. You seem to think that secretly, everyone shares your worldview but is too stubborn to admit it. Well, I'm here to tell you that's just not true. I don't believe in your god or his christ and I don't celebrate Christmas to honour them. I have no qualms about the fact that the feast has a nominally Christian element. I'm not a drone anymore. Having a Christmas tree doesn't mean I'm secretly a Christian or indeed a pagan. It's just not that important.
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clash_city_rockers
What you just wrote is a great example of linear thinking. Have you thought about returning to be a dub?
But so far you have not provided the necessary preconditions of intellegability to validate any of your claims. Question: Linear thinking as compared to what?
Scully,
Speaking of I always wanted to Go to Alaska and check out the Aurora Borealis?(sp)
Aztec writes:
Very little to none of what most people celebrate on "Christmas" day are derivitaves of Christianity.
Good point Aztect. That is because most people who celebrate Christianity are in fact not christians like the atheist I am currently pointing out.
From the wreaths to the trees to mistletoe to exchanging gifts: it's all pagan. Just cause someone slapped the name of Christ on it doesn't make it Christian.
Again these are carryovers from pagan tradition but they have no sagnifigance there not use as instraments of worship there just silly decorations. Let me give you an example of what I mean. I have a poster from the 70's punk band The Damned, it is just a decoration it is not an instrament of worship. Just like wrieths and missletoe and other junk that creeps up on Christmas
cheers,
jr
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larc
My thoughts are the same as Funky's on this one. Clash, you raise a good point. All the pagan trappings are not objects of worship. We just take it a step farther. None of it, is a framework for worship. Let's take Handel's Messiah as an example. Since I was raised in the Christian tradition, I know the scriptures, and I appreciate the beauty of those scriptures set to music by Handel. I understand the majesty of the content, e.g., "wonderful, counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting father, the prince of peace." In fact, I got goose bumps while writing them just now. That does not mean that I believe those words, but I do understand their power for the believer.
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clash_city_rockers
Funky betrays his own atheistic worldview with
To you maybe. To me, it's a time to give and receive presents, eat drink and be merry. Why? Because everyone else is doing it and it's fun. With about eight hours of daylight at this time of year, celebrating the rebirth of the sun seems like a great idea. As an end-of-year celebration it's also a good time to catch up with old friends and family and to have one last blowout before the New Year's Resolutions kick in!
Pragmatism is the best you can do. You wouldnt receive any presents to enjoy your Pints in a special festive sort of way if it was not for the Christian Church and Christian Theism. What you reject and what you despise is gives the occasion for presents and special bottles of Ale that we all enjoy. When you enjoy your gifts and down you Pints you are basically giving the middle finger to your atheistic world view. If I was a true and consistent atheist, which you are not, I would call you a sell out for celebrating Christmas.
Maybe consistency is the problem, maybe atheism can't give an account for consistency since the atheistic world view is so internally inconsistent. Maybe that is why atheist are so woefully inconsistent when they borrow capitol from the Theistic Christian World View and Celebrate Christmas
Funky asks,
Clash, I think part of your problem seems to be that you genuinely can't believe people are really atheists.
Not quite I can't believe that people would be dooped by such an unintelligible religious notion such as atheism, a world view that time and time again proves itself to be internally inconsistent and self-refuting. Atheism is not for the intelligent, its a lazy philosophical and religious system for those who are bitter and angry with God for some inane reason. It is a system that doopes it's victims into thinking that they are wise when atheism presents itself as a paper tiger that is easily crumbled at the slightest of rigorous cross examination. Yet in the end atheism leaves its adherence to the folly of the vanity of their own darken ignorant minds.
cheers,
jr
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clash_city_rockers
One more thing Funky
Christians celebrate Hallowe'en
Bible Christians do not cellabrate Holloween!!!!!!!!!
Oct 31st is REFORMATION DAY on that day in 1517 Martin Luther Nailed the 95 theses up on the Church door at Whittenburg to protest and invite discussion on and against the Churches abuse in selling indulgences and other non biblical abuses.
Represent correctly
Bible Christians cellebrate Reformation Day on October 31st
Edited by - clash_city_rockers on 16 December 2002 10:38:10