History doomed to repeat itself...

by Reborn2002 67 Replies latest jw friends

  • RandomTask
    RandomTask

    Well specifically it is people of ANY religion who are from countries which have been singled out as supporting terrorism and/or breeding terrorist cells. Granted this means 99.9% of these people are Muslim, if not more.

    You are right though, we should be applying these kinds of rules accross the board, which we don't do, but what would be your response to trying to combat these terrost cells where they live among us for years before attacking? It is a fine line between freedom and a police state in these instances, but I find myself at a loss over what to do otherwise. Do you have any solutions to this problem Jo? I'm not being confrontational, I just am interested in your viewpoint. I mean Ideally we wish we wouldn't have to deal with all of this immigration crap and terrorism, but thats not the world we are living in today. Terrorism can destroy the civilized world as we know it if we let it happen.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    If the government is now going round up illegal alliens, fine...so be it. But they better go to Florida and round up all Cubans, Hatians, and go to Minneapolis and get rid of any unlicenced Hmong people.

    You can't round up one group, say you are only holding those that break the laws, and not make sweeping round ups of ALL illegal immigrants. To me it does seem like the Muslim community is being unfairly targeted.

    Right...we have to be completely fair, even if it means ignoring the facts about what is going on. Come on, it wasn't Hatians, Hmongs or Cubans who attacked our country. The people who were rounded up are from countries that are known to support terrorism. If the Muslim community is being unfairly targeted, that's unfortunate, but maybe we should give at least some small weight to the fact that all the people involved in the terrorist attack were Muslims form predominantly Muslim countries! Why can't you people get that through your heads? We have a right, as a country, to defend ourselves against our enemies! And, as I pointed out above, if the terrorists succeed in destroying America, then all of these precious freedoms that you are so anxious to extend to our enemies will vanish.

    One thing seems very certain to me though; if the terrorist attacks had been carried out by fundamentalist Christians, I'm sure all of you liberals would be more than happy to see them rounded up into internment camps!

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    My point is this...if your target is to remove "terrorists" then you might as well round up Americans as well, how else will you stop the Tim McVeighs? All I am saying is if you are looking external you better look all over in the external world because there are more groups than just muslims who dislike American Politcs and would like nothing more than to cause trouble.

    I'm also saying what's to stop Terrorists from doing it the legal way? Get your citizenship, lay low, build a bomb, beat the system.

    No you're right, it's not the cubans and haitians who destroyed the towers or damaged the pentagon. But the reason they detained these people was beacause they broke laws. If you're going to detain them, and you want to close the boarders, you have to apply it across the board.

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    It is quite evident that you did not actually read the story before becoming outraged about it.

    Actually I did read it thank you very much. Please refrain from the ad hominem attacks targeting the person and not the topic at hand. Diversionary tactics irritate me and anyone else interested in rational discussion.

    The fact is, these immigrants demonstrate a willingness to cooperate by complying and registering and are subsequently detained and thrown in a prison cell?

    I find it ironic that thusfar it has been reported that this has only happened to those of Arabic descent.

    As was previously stated, if you are going to begin this course of action, then justice should be administered evenly. America is supposed to be a melting pot where people from all cultures and nationalities can migrate to pursue a better life. Why are those of Hispanic, Irish, Japanese, African, and every other ethnicity who decide to move to America not treated this way on such a wide scale? Immigrants from those countries who agree to comply and go register and are then thrown in detainment? Hasn't happened. Want to explain that one? I didn't think so. It is because politicians want to appear to be stern in the ongoing "war on terror" and the public is afraid, much like the general public was afraid of the Japanese-Americans who were detained during WWII simply because they were Japanese. Yet you seem to condone this racist behavior.

    Right...we have to be completely fair, even if it means ignoring the facts about what is going on. Come on, it wasn't Hatians, Hmongs or Cubans who attacked our country. The people who were rounded up are from countries that are known to support terrorism. If the Muslim community is being unfairly targeted, that's unfortunate, but maybe we should give at least some small weight to the fact that all the people involved in the terrorist attack were Muslims form predominantly Muslim countries!

    Your comments are racist and bigoted in nature.

    Two terrorist examples:

    Oklahoma City 1995 - Timothy McViegh was a YOUNG WHITE MALE.

    Afghanistan 2001 - John Walker Lindh was a YOUNG WHITE MALE.

    In light of your logic, I will fill in the blanks from your foolish comment.

    Muslims attack America = Muslims unfairly targeted and unfortunate but US has right to defend.

    Suburbanite white males attack America = why aren't young white males being rounded up?

    I suppose you will have an excuse for that however.

    Not that the founding fathers are too be viewed uncritically either. They are of the class that cruelly, wantonly and unnecessarily destroyed the North American Native American and perpetuated the profound evils of Slavery for a hundred further years, to long after more enlightened nations across the ocean had outlawed it. How does Slavery reconcile with a Constitution and Bill of Rights? Only by defining the "Negro" as being other than Human

    Focus- I agree with your comments, and by no means should the founding fathers be portrayed as angelic saviors with no fault. In fact some of them supported slave ownership on plantations. This is an excellent point.

    -------------------------------

    Edited to add:

    Another related topic, this course of action may well backfire. As joanna brought out, rounding up Muslims like this will serve to only rally more people to their cause. This could easily be used as a propaganda tool to support the claim of jihad against the infidels who mistreat Muslims. (not that I agree with this, but undoubtedly it will happen)

    Yeru-

    So, is it your position then that foriegners who ARE NOT PERMENANT RESIDENTS, be allowed to violate our laws? Seems to me if they'd done this on September 1st 2001 3000 of our Citizens would still be alive.

    Certainly not. I just would prefer justice to be meted evenly, to do this solely against those of Arab descent will be more harmful to the cause than helpful. The INS needs to round up thousands of illegal aliens of white, hispanic, asian, or black descent though. If they did this then the intifadeh/jihad propaganda pushers could not state it is America attacking strictly Muslims.

    Somehow I do not expect that anytime soon.

    Edited by - Reborn2002 on 19 December 2002 15:53:24

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Joannadandy,

    You're using the terrorist talking points when you say,

    This article upsets me as well. Only because they only rounded up muslims...

    Do you know they were only Muslim? Some may have been Christian, some may have been atheists. No, they came from countries with a HISTORY of supporting terrorists. The US was following it's laws, for some reason this is a problem for the radical left that would sell out their own mothers in order to get their agenda across, not realising that if those they choose to "protect" ever do take over, the liberals will be second to go after us conservatives.

    Reborn.

    If you did read the whole article and were outraged your just absolutely insane. These immigrants were BREAKING the law. They the US chose to target Arabs from specific countries that have figured promenently in the Terrorist world SO WHAT< that's not against the LAW. Get over it dude, WE ARE AT WAR!

    AMerica is supposed to be a melting pot? It's also supposed to be a nation run by the rule of Law, these people that were arrested VIOLATED the law, but that seems to be of no consequence to you.

    John Walker Lindh was indeed a Muslim, though he had US Citizenship.

    Tim McVeigh, well, some are still conecting him with some muslim terrorists.

    KOBAR TOWERS, Muslim Radicals

    Lebenon Marines Blown up Muslim Radicals

    USS COLE Muslim Radicals

    First WTC attack MUSLIM Radicals

    2nd WTC attack, Muslim Radicals

    US EMBASSY bombings in Africa (2 of em) Muslim Radicals

    Attempted attack on LAX in Y2K, Muslim Radical

    Shooting at LAX Muslim Radical

    DC Snipers, BOTH MUSLIM RADICALS

    Are ya getting the picture reborn, it's not ISLAM the US has a problem with, it's radical Muslim Terrorists. The countries targeted by this round up have been VERY SUPPORTIVE of the Radicals so we are doing the PRUDENT THING in arresting those that have VIOLATED US LAW>

    The US has no mechanism for

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit
    INS spokesman Arcaute said those arrested had violated immigration laws, overstayed their visas, or were wanted for crimes.

    Just because a spokesman from a government agency says something doesn't automatically make it correct. Don't forget that the current administration wanted to make disinformation a part of it's foreign policy not too long ago. At the moment there is no evidence to confirm or refute this statement, and therefore it should be filed in the "let's see the evidence" folder.

    Personally, I find it disturbing that the US governement can just list off 20 or so countries, thereby labelling everyone from those countries as potential terrorists and extremists. This is indeed the same type of propaganda technique used sixty years ago, by both sides.

    Expatbrit

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    Don't forget that the current administration wanted to make disinformation a part of it's foreign policy not too long ago. At the moment there is no evidence to confirm or refute this statement, and therefore it should be filed in the "let's see the evidence" folder.

    Personally, I find it disturbing that the US governement can just list off 20 or so countries, thereby labelling everyone from those countries as potential terrorists and extremists. This is indeed the same type of propaganda technique used sixty years ago, by both sides.

    An excellent post expatbrit. Thank you for making one of my points for me.

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    Yeru-

    Hundreds of Muslim Immigrants Rounded Up in Calif.
    I do believe that's the title of the article is it not? Did you see any other groups mentioned? If so, please point them out to me as I missed them, and would like to correct any earlier statement I made that was incorrect.
  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome

    the people of the America need to round up the US administration, and detain them indefinately. the world would be a much safer place then.

  • heathen
    heathen

    I say round em up and send them all back

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