Long Intro From A Long Timer

by hillary_step 185 Replies latest jw friends

Farkel

Hello, Island Woman,
Welcome here.
(That's about all I can say without being a jerk!)
Farkel
IslandWoman

Hello Farkel,
Thank You!
hillary_step

FARKEL you write:
: you are viewing me as a 'soft' target well, you are playing darts without a board.
With that simple statement, you just betrayed yourself. No JW would ever make a statement like that.
Actually Farkel I do owe you an apology. My comments were actually generic in nature and intended to be read within the context of the reaction by some to my original post. I did not intend to imply that you were viewing me a as target but I accept that this is how my comment could be read. That apology being made, what precludes the average JW from understanding and using the term ‘soft’ target, dart or dart board? I have trouble following that one. Can you honestly and confidently say that you know what 6,000,000 people would say in these circumstances?
As to my being a ‘Trol’, not absolutely sure what that means but I presume it is not supposed to be complimentary.
I have no reason to mislead you about who I am. I also have lived long enough to learn that nobody ever wins a point by arguing Farkel. What results from arguments are entrenched positions and I have seen enough damage from these over the years. Your comment about my not being so ‘clever’ is a little silly. If I were trying to be clever, I certainly would not be risking my exposure on this board. It is probably one of the least clever things that I have ever done but it has been done in good faith.
As an Arab proverb once said ‘cleverness is good - but patience is better’. In time as my circumstances unfold you will see that you are wrong in imputing flawed motives to my input here.
TINA you write:
It sure is. The majority of other religions,businesses,political parties,etc. do not enforce medical policies that endanger and kill,as the wts does.
They do not tear families apart with an emotional and psychological abusive shunning policy.
Putting religion aside,the others do not claim to speak for god.
Tina - With respect your statement above is inaccurate Even in North America a health policy seems to be enforced that allows people to die on trolleys because they could not afford medical insurance. Take a close look at the modus operandi of governments of China, many African countries, Haiti, South America, some areas of India and Burma, parts of the Balkans and Russia etc.etc. Who was it that deliberately sent Aids contaminated blood to Africa? My own nation the UK. My original argument Tina is where you find organisation, ANY organisation, you find some sort of pain. I have seen nothing that disproves that
Hs,
Actually,Im rather well traveled,and I stand by what I said in my posts. I always take the global view......the atrocity you saw in the middle east is comparable to the atrocities perpetrated by the wts: the Malawi political card disaster
innocent children dying due to a specious and nonsensical medical policy. SO please dont take the high road with me
Please note your own comments posted above Tina and you will note the contradiction in your own position. I you feel that a person presenting a view contrary to your own has taken the ‘high road’ with you, then you seem to have just swapped one set of extreme slogans for another.
Step
COMF

COMF - serial-killer! Well if he keeps a tidy garden and pays his taxes, that's some good isnt it.

I didn't say serial killer. I said serial rape-murder. Note: "murder" - not "murderer."
Every man or women is capable of anything and we all have good and evil carefully balanced within us, even you Comf, is the point that I was trying to make and by which I stand.
No, that was not your initial statement. I did not speak of a person. I spoke of an activity. You did mention people, true, but only after your statements which prompted my post. Let's look again. You said:
I appreciate that it may puzzle most of you as to how I have been able to be part of and indeed support an arrangement for so long when I have been well aware of its theological and social flaws... Needless to say, I have found in life that nothing is completely good nor completely bad.
Note that you specifically address your support of "an arrangement." It is while speaking of this "arrangement" that you make your claim about good and bad, using the term "nothing" rather than "nobody." So you are speaking at this point about the religion's effects; its activity and the result of that activity. Yes, you do attempt to segue by mental sleight-of-hand from one subject to another by immediately bringing up people:
Some of the most wonderful good hearted people I have met have been JW’s and some of the most spiteful and deceitful that I have rubbed shoulders with have also graced this strange collective edifice. Is this experience any different from any other organization, religion, business, political party, neighborhood, indeed individual? I suspect not.
But it is not the people you are discussing in your initial statement about the "arrangement," and people's benign "arrangements" have no connection with their harmful "arrangements." To adapt your own analogy, a tidy garden does not "carefully balance" serial rape-murder. I like gardens and encourage their cultivation, but am unwilling to allow that every gardener be a serial rape-murderer to balance out his gardening.
COMF
hillary_step

COMF
Thank you for your comments. I am not sure that I fully understand what you are trying to say but I will give them some space and thought.
think41self

Hi Hillary,
Welcome to the board! I can see from some of the responses that some here doubt the veracity of your story. They've been around longer than I have, so maybe they see something I don't. I am going to respond to your post as if it is sincere. If you have duped me, then the only thing I have lost is a few minutes of my time, which I can afford.
Many of the things you said struck a chord with me, because when I was in the org. I thought the same way. And when you are in denial, you can rationalize many things. It is your opinion that the members of the GB are sincere men, who believe they are doing God's will and protecting the flock at any cost. I of course do not personally know any of these men, but I tend to agree with you on that. I understand that kind of devotion, I used to feel it too. I do however believe that at this point in time, there logically must be some men in positions of power, who have had doubts about the rightness of their decisions, ie: disfellowshipping, blood, military service...but cannot overcome a long entrenched system to change the thinking. Any wavering on the part of the GB now would be a show of weakness, and they cannot afford that.
I also agree with your comment that we see these kinds of abuses of power in all organizations, political and religious, even corporate.
I also agree that they have been just as devastating to the people abused as any witnesses have been. That does not invalidate the suffering and death of the JWs who were trying to do the right thing, it just means others have been abused in like manner. Yes, these men are claiming to be directed by God, as do many religions, and yes they are even more bloodguilty in my opinion for that reason.
I do not agree with the thinking that we humans are all capable of the same degree of goodness or evil. I believe that we are all born with the same degree(except for the extreme cases of mental illness)but from there it is our circumstances and choices in life that shape us into who we become. Many of us here have been tested to the very limits of our endurance, and found out what we were capable of, and it only strengthened the core goodness that we have. There was no turning in our hearts to evil thoughts.
Lastly, I agree that we should all strive to leave the world a better place than we found it. That is what many on this board are trying to do, by helping others heal from the abuse they have suffered. If that is your intent. then welcome to the board and please stay.
think41self
SixofNine

I am not sure that I fully understand what you are trying to say but I will give them some space and thought.

Please do Hillary, because he was VERY clear. If you can't come to an understanding of what Comf is saying, it is because you don't want to.
hillary_step

think41self
I appreciate your giving me the benefit of the doubt and I largely agree with your comments.
More than twenty years ago I fell in love with a woderful woman whom I subsequently married and is the light of my life. The few years before that, I had through my own research concluded that the WTS was flawed in much of its scriptual interpretation and I was ready to leave and get on with my life. I felt it incumbent upon me to try and share this information with my fiance but met with negative reactions ( to say the least) and withdrew recognising that you cannot win this type of war overnight and certainly not by confrontation. I had two choices to marry, or to leave the WTS. I married and have no regrets. Very gradually over the next 20 years I slowly brought my wife to the realisation that perhaps what she had firmly believed to be true for such a long time was not. As of today, she no longer believes in the WTS exclusivity as Gods tool and is furious at the wasted years. She shares much of the anger that seems to be the prevelant on this board and could probably add a few choice words of cussing of her own to the many that I have seen. We all go through this, I did many years ago. But anger, while understandable and neccessary in short measure, does not lead to spiritual growth. We are ready to leave the WTS but we will do this on our own terms not theirs.
So no, you have not been duped by me think41self. I do not have the time to put much discussive input into the board but I do read and thank you for at least giving me the chance to explain myself without judgement.
By the way the 'Hillary Step' as most mountaineers know is the final obstacle to reaching the peak of Everest. At this stage many climbers fail and it needs supreme effort to break the chains of exhaustion and move to the top.
step
hillary_step

SixOfNine
A night with little rest, perhaps my mind is in underdrive. Perhaps you might kindly simplify the point Comf was making and fill in the blanks for me -
What comf is saying is..............
Thank you - step
SixofNine

Sure thing, it can't get any simpler than this.
What Comf is saying is....
quote:
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COMF - serial-killer! Well if he keeps a tidy garden and pays his taxes, that's some good isnt it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say serial killer. I said serial rape-murder. Note: "murder" - not "murderer."
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Every man or women is capable of anything and we all have good and evil carefully balanced within us, even you Comf, is the point that I was trying to make and by which I stand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, that was not your initial statement. I did not speak of a person. I spoke of an activity. You did mention people, true, but only after your statements which prompted my post. Let's look again. You said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate that it may puzzle most of you as to how I have been able to be part of and indeed support an arrangement for so long when I have been well aware of its theological and social flaws... Needless to say, I have found in life that nothing is completely good nor completely bad.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that you specifically address your support of "an arrangement." It is while speaking of this "arrangement" that you make your claim about good and bad, using the term "nothing" rather than "nobody." So you are speaking at this point about the religion's effects; its activity and the result of that activity. Yes, you do attempt to segue by mental sleight-of-hand from one subject to another by immediately bringing up people:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of the most wonderful good hearted people I have met have been JW’s and some of the most spiteful and deceitful that I have rubbed shoulders with have also graced this strange collective edifice. Is this experience any different from any other organization, religion, business, political party, neighborhood, indeed individual? I suspect not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But it is not the people you are discussing in your initial statement about the "arrangement," and people's benign "arrangements" have no connection with their harmful "arrangements." To adapt your own analogy, a tidy garden does not "carefully balance" serial rape-murder. I like gardens and encourage their cultivation, but am unwilling to allow that every gardener be a serial rape-murderer to balance out his gardening.
COMF
It is rare to find anyone using the written word as clearly and concisely as Comf. Just read and understand, it really can't be any simpler unless you have a serious reading comprehension problem. You don't write as if you are stupid, I have trouble believing that you read as a stupid person. No offense meant here, but there is no particular reason to be patient with you if your motives are not good. If you refuse to understand the simple words of Comf, I believe your motives are not good.

Long Intro From A Long Timer

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