Are You In Support Of Starting A War In Iraq ?

by minimus 111 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  JH

  I think that instead of waging war on Iraq, the UN should send thousands of peace keepers and stay as long as it takes to destroy whatever illegal weapons remains.
  

  A war would kill millions of innocent people, and Saddam would get away.

  The only peaceful way is through the UN.

  All the countries who want a peaceful solution should send thousands of peace keepers to do what President Bush wants to do by force. (Proverbs 15:1)

  I think North Korea is a bigger problem. There too, the UN should deal with that. Send the 37,000 American troups in South Korea back home. That would ease things alot. If North and South Korea unify, like they want to, then they would destroy their Weapons of Mass Destruction.

  President Bush is a hardliner. He gets into trouble everywhere on the planet.

  The world is a much more dangerous place since he became president.
• 

  Pureheart

  Hi JH, I have feelings similar to yours. I hope that a peaceful solution can be worked out between Iraq and the USA. Pureheart
• 

  ThiChi

  12 years of inspections have not provided any results.

  "You cannot look at history and then say with any sense of accuracy or intelligence, that peace brings peace. Victory brings peace. Victory over oppressors brings peace. Victory in war is what brings peace.” RL

  I agree!
  
  
• 

  Pleasuredome

  dubla

  now that you are using lyndon larouche to back up your theories

  i dont use LaRouche to back up anything. that article wasnt written by LaRouche or about LaRouche. i dont give a crap about LaRouche, what he said in the past or anything else about him. so dont try taint me with that crap.

  which hijackers from the list of 19 were terrorists? is it the ones that have been found alive and well? and who are the others?

  i would suggest to you that boston globe lied, as there hasnt been one shred of evidence of the hijackers names appearing on any passenger list or ticket documentation. if you've seen it please show me and then i'm sure i'd be more enlightened.

  you talk about FACTS, please post the Facts as you know them, and i'll let you know the ones i dont agree with.
• 

  JH

  ThiChi

  War works, and peace can work if done the right way.

  Nations like France and Germany could send 50,000 peace keepers, and destroy illegal weapons there. Since they want the peaceful way out, that would be the least they could do. If they don't want to do that, then they are only bluffing when they talk about peace.

  If after doing that nothing happens, then the UN should do what the US wants to do.

  In the last 12 years, they should have sent 50,000 peace keepers to disarm. But they didn't do much in these 12 years. A handful of inspectors can't do much.
• 

  ThiChi

  JH:
  

  France and Germany have been the main suppliers to Iraq for WMDs and conventional arms. I think France and Germany's activities will be brought to light once we see the records. France has over 13 billion dollars in oil contracts with Iraq, Germany, a little less.

  Time up. Action is now. France and Germany have no moral standing.

  In 1987 the Paris-based Le Monde estimated that, between 1981 and 1985, the value of French arms transfers to Iraq was US$5.1 billion, which represented 40 percent of total French arms exports. Paris, however, was forced to reschedule payment on most of its loans to Iraq because of Iraq's hard-pressed wartime economy and did so willingly because of its longer range strategic interests. French president François Mitterand was quoted as saying that French assistance was really aimed at keeping Iraq from losing the war. Iraqi debts to France were estimated at US$3 billion in 1987.

  French military sales to Iraq were important for at least two reasons. First, they represented high-performance items. Iraq received attack helicopters, missiles, military vehicles, and artillery pieces from France. Iraq also bought more than 400 Exocet AM39 air-to-surface missiles and at least 200 AS30 laserguided missiles between 1983 and 1986. Second, unlike most other suppliers, France adopted an independent and unambiguous arms sales policy towards Iraq. France did not tie French arms commitments to Baghdad's politico-military actions, and it openly traded with Iraq even when Iranian-inspired terrorists took French hostages in Lebanon. In late 1987, however, the French softened their Persian Gulf policy, and they consummated a deal with Tehran involving the exchange of hostages for detained diplomatic personnel. It was impossible in early 1988 to determine whether France would curtail its arms exports to Iraq in conjunction with this agreement.

  Germany Tops In Covert
  Sale Of Weapons To Iraq WorldNetDaily.com
  2-25-3
  
  

  When U.S. troops and allies engage Iraqi forces in battle next month, they will be facing units armed with European weapons continuously delivered to Iraq throughout the course of the embargo - including arms delivered in the last few weeks, reports Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin, an online intelligence news resource. The biggest offending European nation in supplying illicit arms to Iraq is Germany, reports G2, even while Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has joined France's Prime Minister Jacque Chirac as the leading cheerleaders for giving international arms inspectors more time to determine if Iraq is in violation of United Nations resolutions. According to the latest issue of G2 Bulletin, Iraq's own reports to the United Nations Security Council show that German firms made up the bulk of suppliers for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. "Even while playing the role of peacemaker looking only for solid proof of arms violations by Iraq, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder knows the truth - that he and his country have provided much of the equipment and expertise Iraq has needed to reinvigorate its efforts to build weapons of mass destruction," the newsletter reports. The German intelligence agency BND is believed to have served as a silent partner in a Hamburg front company, Water Engineering Trading or WET, which facilitated the export of materiel needed for such arms, the report says. Half of the precursor materials and a majority of the tools and the technology for their conversion into weapons were sold to Iraq by German firms -- both prior to and after the 1991 Gulf War. The German firm Preussag is the leading supplier of chemical agents and production equipment to Iraq, according to documents turned over to the U.N. by Baghdad. Preussag is a subsidiary of Europe's largest travel agent and tour operator TUI. It is also a company that has been very supportive of Schroeder. In early 1998, when Schroeder was running for re-election as prime minister of the state of Lower Saxony, he had the state buy 51 percent of Preussag's troubled steel division to the tune of $500 million, claiming that 12,000 jobs were at stake. Schroeder went on to win the crucial election, setting him up to become chancellor. Included on the Iraqi suppliers' lists are other German corporate names: Hoechst, Daimler-Benz, Siemens, Kloeckner, Carl Zeiss, Schott Glas, Karl Kolb-Pilot Plant and WTB (Walter Thosti Boswau). The WTB undertaking was supported by a credit guarantee for several hundred million German marks by Hermes, a German government export and credit insurer. Rhein-Bayern supplied Iraq with eight mobile toxicological labs housed in sand-colored, camouflage-painted Magirus trucks. Germany may be the biggest offender in Europe, but it is not alone as a weapons supplier to Iraq. Western intelligence sources marked more than 20 countries as "Iraqi arms embargo busters" and the list could be longer, according to G2. The suppliers have been using mainly Syrian or Lebanese ports as ways for passage to Iraq. According to U.N. officials and American military intelligence collected by the Defense Intelligence Agency, "a powder-like agent" entered Iraq legally late in 2002, G2 reports. The U.N. had approved the import of 25 metric tons of a material designated for the Samara pharmaceutical industry in the framework of the "oil for food program." The material, called Aerosil, is an important ingredient in the manufacturing of various types of chemical weapons, including nerve gas. More than 100 metric tons of this material, manufactured in Germany, were bought and delivered just before the first Persian Gulf War. A sensitive British intelligence document claims that a similar product, described as "silicon diaroxide," arrived in Iraq more recently. Analysts say that this "powder-like substance" is also used to produce the VX agent capable of endangering the lives of persons even when wearing protective suits. According to the British, there is no way to determine the exact quantities of VX in Iraqi hands, G2 reports. Croatia, Serbia, Albania, Slovakia, Macedonia and Montenegro continue to provide Iraq with conventional weapons, according to G2 sources. Ukraine is believed to have sold more than $100 million worth of military equipment to Iraq.

  History proves this statement very true:

  "You cannot look at history and then say with any sense of accuracy or intelligence, that peace brings peace. Victory brings peace. Victory over oppressors brings peace. Victory in war is what brings peace."
• 

  JH

  Thanks ThiChi for the facts.

  And I was under the impression France and Germany were nice guys.
• 

  freedom96

  Yes, I support the war. Wish it didn't have to happen, but it does.
• 

  ThiChi

  JH:

  They probably are "good guys.". At the very least, they are doing what they feel is best for their Nations. The US helped Iraq defeat Iran back in 1988 by selling arms.....

  Dynamics always change, good guys are now the bad guys, I don’t know the real answer for "Peace and Security." Looking at history, we have never had a world wide peaceful situation. No one can name one county that has never been invaded at one time or another. Who knows?

  I just feel that change is needed in the mid-east.........
• 

  Soledad

  For those who wish to continue with the smoke screen that this is only about oil, I heard on the news the other night that Venezuela has more known oil reserves than all of the Middle East. Right now, Venezuela is mired in their own civil strife, threatening their oil production.

  If Bush and the US were simply seeking cheap oil, why are the problems of Venezuela being relatively ignored by the US? If the US is only interested in maintaining cheap oil for our own consumption, wouldn't we also be trying to maintain it from Venezuela?

  Food for thought.

  not being ignored:

  http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-US-Venezuela.html

  U.S. Says Venezuela Oil Now Unreliable

  By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

  Filed at 9:59 p.m. ET

  WASHINGTON (AP) -- Top State Department officials told a delegation of Venezuelans Wednesday that political disruptions have created serious doubts about the country's reliability as an oil supplier, an administration official said.

  They called on the Venezuelan government and the opposition to negotiate a settlement to their differences, said Charles Barclay, spokesman for the State Department's Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs.

  The officials passed the message to Energy and Mines Minister Rafael Ramirez and the president of the Venezuelan state oil company, Ali Rodriguez.

  The Venezuelan delegation was told that the way for the country to restore its reputation as a reliable oil supplier is for the government and the opposition to reach agreement on a ``constitutional, democratic, peaceful and electoral solution,'' Barclay said.

  The U.S. officials also urged that the parties work with Organization of American States Secretary General Cesar Gaviria, who has tried in vain to promote a settlement.

  Wednesday's meeting occurred three days after Chavez assailed Gaviria for speaking out about the detention of a strike leader, saying his comments were ``totally out of place.''

  He also criticized State Department spokesman Richard Boucher for saying last week that Washington was concerned that the detention could hinder peace talks.

  ``Gentlemen of Washington ... we don't meddle in your internal affairs,'' Chavez said. ``Why does a spokesman have to come out and say they are worried? No, that is Venezuela's business.''

  Venezuela has been a leading source of U.S. oil imports, accounting last year for about 1.5 million barrels a day. Most analysts place part of the blame for the low supplies of crude and petroleum products in the United States on the loss of Venezuelan oil imports.

  A general strike that was called in December as a protest against Chavez paralyzed the oil industry for a time and devastated the national economy. Oil production has recovered somewhat in recent weeks but is still well below normal.