Are You In Support Of Starting A War In Iraq ?

by minimus 111 Replies latest jw friends

  • Francois
    Francois

    "...multiple wars, but at what cost?" At what cost to who? I agree it would be expensive, especially in terms of loss of life for our opponents. We have lost hundreds of thousands of our soldiers in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. And now if we loose a dozen or so soldiers people are all up in arms and foaming at the mouth. This due to the super development of "stand-off weapons" of all sorts. We even have cruise missles that actually entered caves in the Tora Bora range. Yeah, it's gonna be a very large cost, in lives, of our enemies.

    Remember the WTC? Who gives a big shit if a hundred thousand Arabs pay for that? They sat by their televisions and cheered as our folks died like flies. Do I support a war to get a) Saddam, b) bin Laden, c) Kim Jong Ill? You bet your bippee.

    francois

  • dubla
    dubla

    pleasuredome-

    you say you dont support any war....and you are obviously not alone on this board. im just curious....what in your opinion would have been a better way to deal with al qaeda/the taliban?

    aa

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome

    it would have been better not to have created them in the first place.

    having said that unfortunately there's only one way to beat a terrorist, and thats to play them at their own game, not through war, but by assassination. thats the only way to beat them. thats how spain beat ETA in the late 70's early 80's.

    as for the taliban? what difference is there between them, north korea, burma, robert mugabe, and such like? well one difference is that afghanistan is a major route for an oil supply pipeine from the caspian region to pakistan, which Unocal are now building.

  • dubla
    dubla

    pleasure-

    so you are in favor of military action, just not war?

    as for the taliban? what difference is there between them, north korea, burma, robert mugabe, and such like?

    if there are al qaeda training camps found in north korea (or anywhere else for that matter), specifically made for training men to hijack commercial air planes and fly them into large buildings....im sure there will be action against them too. its pretty simple really. the taliban helped train and financially supported the terrorists invovled in 9/11.

    aa

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome

    dubla

    i'm not in favour of any military action.

    "the taliban helped train and financially supported the terrorists invovled in 9/11."

    please prove to me that terrorists were on board those planes. the list the FBI published of names and faces, was a joke. some of them turned up alive and well in other countries. if you think the 9/11 story as published the US administration is the 'truth'....then great, i have no problem with that.

  • asortafairytale
  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Yes, I support the war. We need to be pro active against our enemies because we have seen what these people are capable of doing. We need stability in the area. We need an invasion. Yes, lets do it for the oil too. History shows over and over that a good invasion is needed now and then for stability.

    Just think what would have happened if we would have stopped Hitler in Munic.

    ""Some here need a reality check. Name one country that has never been invaded at one point in history? This is the process of human society.

    What third world country has done better by kicking the US out? Iran? Nope. It is worse now than when we were an influence there. You can not name one.

    Who cares if we go in for oil? That is the best reason in the world for stability and economy, for all. ""

    Edited by - thichi on 24 January 2003 12:23:27

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    asortafairytale:

    Neither is running planes into buildings or chemical weapons......reality check, please.

    ""please prove to me that terrorists were on board those planes. ""

    Hahhaaa ahaahaaaaa hahaaaaaa!

    Edited by - thichi on 24 January 2003 12:23:47

    Edited by - thichi on 24 January 2003 12:24:42

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Pleasure,

    It's all a giant conspiracy, right?

    You said...

    this war is about securing iraqi oil fields and removing saddam and putting into place a 'puppet' like in afghanistan, and you can be sure that like hamed kharzi the new iraqi leader will have oil company connections.

    OK, prove one iota of that statement. Show me where the proof that this war is about securing oil fields? Show me the Kharzi connection to any "oil company"

    the list the FBI published of names and faces, was a joke. some of them turned up alive and well in other countries.
    Ummm, so, some of the 19 named hijackers are alive and well? You're right, there were no terrorists, those planes flew themselves into the WTC. Worse yet, the tape of Bin Laden praising the attacks and talking about their planning, those were all faked. GEEZ!
  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    So what if oil is a factor? So what? The money generated so far is going for nefarious actions. Yes, take the oil......

    "It is not a lie when you are ordered to lie."

    a senior Iraqi biological weapons official

    In December 1998, when U.N weapons inspector Dr. Richard Spertzel became exasperated by Iraqi evasions and misrepresentations, he confronted Dr. Rihab Taha, the woman the Iraqis identified as the head of their biological weapons program and asked her directly, "You know that we know you are lying. So why do you do it?" She straightened herself up and replied, "Dr. Spertzel, its not a lie when you are ordered to lie."1

    Dr. Taha's brief reply is one symbol of a highly developed, well disciplined, and expertly organized program designed to win support for the Iraqi regime through outright deceit. This elaborate program is one of the regime's most potent weapons for advancing its political, military, and diplomatic objectives. In their disinformation and propaganda campaigns, the Iraqis use elaborate ruses and obvious falsehoods, covert actions and false on_the_record statements, and sophisticated preparation and spontaneous exploitation of opportunities. Many of the techniques are not new, but this regime exploits them more aggressively and effectively and to more harmful effect than any other regime in power today.

    In the weeks ahead, as the international community seeks to enforce UN Security Council resolutions and disarm the Iraqi regime, governments, the media, and the public are urged to consider the regime's words, deeds, and images in light of this brutal record of deceit.

    Apparatus of Lies discusses the lies that Iraq has used to promote its propaganda and disinformation in four broad categories:

    Crafting Tragedy: To craft tragedy, the regime places civilians close to military equipment, facilities, and troops, which are legitimate targets in an armed conflict. The Iraqi regime openly used both Iraqis and foreigners as human shields during the Gulf War, eventually bowing to international pressure and releasing them. It has also placed military equipment next to or inside mosques and ancient cultural treasures. Finally, it has deliberately damaged facilities and attributed the damage to coalition bombing and has attempted to pass off damage from natural catastrophes, such as earthquakes, as the result of bombing.

    Exploiting Suffering: To exploit suffering, Saddam blames starvation and medical crises often of his own making on the United Nations or the United States and its allies. This is such an effective ruse that the Iraqi regime actually causes or actively ignores hardship and then aggressively exploits the Iraqi peoples suffering. For the last few years, the Iraqis have aggressively promoted the false notion that depleted uranium a substance that is relatively harmless and was used for armor_piercing munitions during the Gulf War has caused cancers and birth defects among Iraqis. Scientific evidence indicates that any elevated rates of cancer and birth defects are most likely due to Iraqi use of chemical weapons.

    Exploiting Islam: Experts know that Saddam Hussein is a non_religious man from a secular even atheistic party. But to exploit Islamic sentiments, he adopts expressions of faith in his public pronouncements, and the Iraqi propaganda apparatus erects billboards and distributes images showing him praying or in other acts of piety all while the regime prevents pilgrims from making the Hajj. The regime also has made many false claims designed to incite Muslims against its adversaries.

    Corrupting the Public Record: To corrupt the public record, the regime uses a combination of on_the_record lies, covert placements of false news accounts, self_inflicted damage, forgeries, and fake interviews.

    The Iraqi regime uses several tools in various combinations to disseminate false information and images in the expectation that supporters and commentators will cause it to reverberate through the media. Many of these falsehoods die quickly, but even the most implausible claims can find believers or at least a permanent home in the public record. Under certain circumstances, some will gain vigor and continue to be repeated and grow, even after they have been proven false.

    The Iraqis have adapted and varied their mix of themes and techniques over the years, depending on the situation, and they have quickly seized new opportunities to spread false information. Iraqs disinformation effort is serious and sophisticated. The regime commits substantial resources to this effort and has achieved some remarkable successes.

    Main Tools of Iraqi Disinformation

    Staged suffering and grief

    Co_location of military assets and civilians

    Restricting journalists movements

    False claims or disclosures

    False man_in_the_street interviews

    Self_inflicted damage

    On_the_record lies

    Covert dissemination of false stories

    Censorship

    Bogus, edited, or old footage and images

    Fabricated documents

    An important priority of Saddam's deception apparatus is to manipulate the televised images the world sees. This is accomplished by controlling the movements of foreign journalists, monitoring and censoring news transmissions, disseminating old or fake footage, and carefully staging events or scenes. The regime's most cynical strategy is to actually cause severe civilian hardship or even deaths and then exploit the Iraqi peoples suffering by placing the blame on UN_imposed sanctions or other nations.

    Recent U.S. government reports, including A Decade of Defiance and Deception, have documented Saddam's deceit regarding UN resolutions and weapons inspections. In order to raise awareness of many of the regime's other forms of deception, particularly those likely to be repeated, Apparatus of Lies examines the facts behind Iraqi disinformation and propaganda since 1990. Given the nature and history of the regime, evidence of further deception is almost certain to come to light.

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