Atheists/Agnostics/Prayer (page 2)

patio34

Wow, Esmerelda, that's some husband you have there! But I'm sure he feels the same way as you do! Btw, I also am reading Dr. Phil's book--don't you just love him on Oprah? I've been looking for some sort of advice in the reinventing of myself since leaving the borg. One article I read called it the 'pseudopersonality' you have when in the 'cult.'

i haven't really reached any beliefs in my quest (it's only been 6 weeks!). I give myself a year to infinity. However, I thought that's what agnostic meant: "a" means without and gnosis means knowledge. So, you really don't claim to have the knowledge at that time. Oh dear! My agnosis is showing!

Crossroads, thanks for the post. Larc, sorry if the subject was confusing but the topic was really meant just to link the three subjects not as an invitation. I agree, Larc, that it was not prayer that led me to Simon's, it was my very sweet younger outtatruth sister (who posts as 'Waiting'--cool that's we're sisters, huh?). I just love her to pieces and she's been such a help to me.

Carmel, that was really a moving post. All of us are at different stages and traveling to different conclusions, but we started from the same place.

Tina, I always enjoy your posts! You go, girl!

Isn't it grand to have a place to come to and discuss these 'radical' ideas? It reminds me of a coffee shop in Paris (in the novels) where the university students and/or radicals would meet and discuss serious things.

TTFN,
Patio

COMF

This calls to mind what a regular pioneer once said to me. He had terminated a study he had been having with one of his marks, and I asked him why. He responded, "How long do you spur a dead horse?"

Well, you spur it until you realize it's dead. Then you get off the horse, accepting that it is not going to take you to your destination. You gather your things together, including whatever is on the horse that you want, and you set off toward your destination on your own, you doing the walking that the horse would not do.

So it is with prayers. As long as you are waiting for divine intervention, you are not inclined to do things for yourself. As soon as you figure out that the choices are: a) do it yourself, and b) do without, you are in a position to achieve your goal.

Being open to connecting the dots in different patterns, though, will provide some amazing spice in your life.

Well put! I recently told a close friend of mine, "Your goal in life seems to be to make it through to the end without getting any of it on you."

Not me, buddy!

COMF

(Grammatical errors corrected)

COMF

my very sweet younger outtatruth sister (who posts as 'Waiting'--cool that's we're sisters, huh?).

She is indeed sweet, although tough as nails if you get crossways to her, as I once did. :) I had the pleasure of meeting her last Friday evening. She, her hubby, and a gentleman who used to post on H2O as Believer all spent the evening visiting together. I had no idea you were sisters, though. Wish you'd been here, too!

COMF

larc

patio,

The reason I said what I did to crossroads, was that I did not want to see this thread flooded with people trying to prove you or me or others to me wrong. There are other threads for that. I like crossroads. He has to be a good person. After all, he likes Bob Dylan.

Introspection

Well, I think it would be a mistake to think we're all alone, even if you don't believe in supernatural causes. It seems to me there is one key thing about prayer, and that's intention. I guess that has more to do with the kind of prayer where we're looking for something, though there's also the 'ol "thy will be done" kind, which seems to me is more like acceptance. We can't control the outcome of our efforts after all, but of course we try. I guess what I'm trying to say is, just don't close your eyes and go at it blindly as if you are all there is. You want to own your own stuff, but I think ultimately, ownership is illusory in the big picture.

COMF

I guess what I'm trying to say is, just don't close your eyes and go at it blindly as if you are all there is.

I closed my eyes and went at it blindly when I was praying. Going at it as if you are all there is, equates to having your eyes open, assessing the situation, weighing your strengths against the requirements, and making informed decisions. If others want to jump in and lend a shoulder to the load, it's usually welcome. But you don't want to build your plans on the assumption that any shoulder other than your own will be there. Otherwise you may spend a whole lot of valuable time at the loading dock waiting for them to show.

COMF

Introspection

Comf, no you don't want to make that assumption, and that is not what I am saying. My point isn't about having help or no help, but it's a matter of acceptance. As long as you are still personally identified with the circumstances, your analysis will be less than objective. I don't want to repeat myself as we've been discussing this under Mental Health, but suffice it to say to really make informed decisions you need a quality of openness. If you're so caught up with your own plan then you may not see it when someone happens to offer a helping hand. Even if help isn't intended, you can miss the opportunity if you are not open to it.

patio34

Larc,
thanks for the clarification and you're right--this thread shouldn't be flooded by 'testimonials' about the value of prayer. There are plenty of threads for that.

Comf, glad you met my sister and hubby--I, too, wish I'd been there!

Patio

Seven

Patio, Quote:I haven't really reached any beliefs in my quest (it's only been 6 weeks!). I give myself a year to infinity. It's going on six months for me and looking more and more like infinity everyday. As for prayer, if I would have relied more on myself than on aid from a higher source I could have escaped the trap sooner. I'm not going to pray and wait to see if I'm worthy of an answer. The solutions are there now that I'm awake and aware. It is truly liberating.

Seven

Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly.-Warning Label from Batman costume

d0rkyd00d

As a matter of fact, I came to this realization just recently. That it's not prayer that helps you, it's you who helps yourself. I wish i could share this information with everybody. However, the question was posed to me,"Why would you want to take people's hopes away, when they rely on the fact that God helps them if they pray?" Yes, i agree it is comforting to believe this; however, i don't believe it is right to allow people to live a lie, and then when they are disappointed, blame an outside source. THAT is what isn't right.

"No cool quote yet. But i'll think of one soon."

Atheists/Agnostics/Prayer

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