by Fisherman 94 Replies latest social current
that Russia’s military would indeed subdue Ukraine’s forces quickly but that is not happening - it's not happening because we The West have given Ukraine lots of free toys, at a cost of billions of dollar-pounds.
Britain alone has give £2 billion worth of food, clothing, military hardware.
Is Ukraine gonna pay us back?
The United States invades Iraq on the other side of the planet, under false pretences, and western opinion is: that was unfortunate, but we had the best of intentions.
Russia warns for decades about NATO expansion, and that Ukraine is absolutely a red line for them, and western opinion is: this is a complete shock, they won’t leave any other country in peace unless we stop them now.
^^^ Indeed so.
We, The West, have no moral high ground whatsoever. If we moan that Russia invaded Ukraine illegally, Putin can draw our attention to our own illegal war in Iraq.
If The West worries that evil, nasty Russia will go nuclear, Putin can remind us that the US went nuclear on Japan in 1945 - twice.
It's a sad state of affairs but it's true: The West has no moral high ground, and Putin knows this.
Why has it suddenly become 'the current thing' that we must all follow like sheep? - yeah, it's weird.
Putin invades and seizes Crimea in 2014, and there was basically no response in The West.
Ukraine is absolutely a red line for them… shock…
That makes sense that Russia has been concerned about the bases, gave fair warning and justifies Russia’s move. As if people could somehow believe that Russia could be pushed around and do nothing.
All of the above granted, I can’t see why they gave Ukraine their independence to begin with. I also believe that given any opportunity or reason, they would still do the same without the bases.
Russia has a declining birthrate and a medium age over 40 years old. So does the Ukraine.
Although I can see the average Russian being nostalgic for the former USSR and wanting a strong Russia, I really can't see wanting to send your only son to die for it. The Ukraine on the other hand is basically fighting for its existence . Every single person from the age of 16 to 60 is prepared to fight. Plus Russia also destroyed the economy so what else is there to do besides fight. Plus Ukraine also has the " Holodomor " to draw inspiration to fight from.
I think they can win.
Lockheed Martin earned more last year than the entire GDP of Ukraine. The narrative that "Ukraine can win this" is exactly what they want to hear as it will pressure foreign governments to send more aid. Knowing that, I'd be careful as to the level of propaganda we are hearing now about the success of the counter-offensive. A full Russian defeat and withdrawal is not the favourable outcome for these defense contractors, rather a stalemate is. As Ukraine hasn't had any movement in the Kherson region and the Kharkiv successes are occurring in lightly defended rural regions, a stalemate is what is likely to happen. Final battlelines/de facto borders yet to be determined.
Absolutely. All the “military experts” they have on US networks with undeclared interests.
Once the EU/US realized Putin wasn't stopping at the Dnieper, this became a proxy war between East (China/Russia) and West (EU/UK/US).
Biden would've gladly handed over the areas that Russia initially claimed, but Russia isn't set on just some minor swamp regions in Ukraine (which Trump warned Merkel quite publicly against this a few years ago) and once they crossed the river and rockets started falling near both Polish and Czech borders and oil/energy supplies were being cut, they must have realized Russia was set on more than just Ukraine.
Ukraine won't win, they've already lost, "winter is coming" and once the Europeans start freezing and starving, they will be more than happy to negotiate a cease-fire and give up the entire Donbas region and allow Ukraine to once again become a puppet state of the Russians.
Although I can see the average Russian being nostalgic for the former USSR and wanting a strong Russia, I really can't see wanting to send your only son to die for it.
Now look at history. I know it's no longer fashionable to have any kind of memory in the west, but Russia undoubtedly remembers the massive sacrifice it paid to win WWII and the scourge of fascism, so the combination of Nato expansion and a blind-eye given to the nazi segments in Ukraine and bombings of Donbas is an impetus to act.
Ukraine isn't a democracy and we shouldn't be pumping money into a corrupt regime.
And the question shouldn't be "can Ukraine win", it should be "why do we give a shit?". Seriously, why do we care? Why are we propping up an undemocratic regime? Why do we care about artificial borders? Why don't we re-draw them based on the traditional allegiances people have?
Can't we learn from Yugoslavia that these "carved up countries invented by world powers" simple aren't sustainable?
Can't we learn from Iraq that these "forever conflicts" aren't about saving anyone, they don't care if millions die as long as they make $billions from it.
