Will Ukraine win? (page 4)

Nathan Natas

Certainly Яussia thought the war would be a walk in the park before they sent in their untrained, equipped with genuine Яed Chinese junk hardware, ground troops.

Яussia has an odd attitude toward their military - they very nearly worship their Иavy while treating their ground troops like the dirt they get buried in.

Personally, I want a Ukrainian victory, partly because half my genes come from that area of the world, and largely because I enjoy it when an underestimated victim surprises a bully. Did you know "Putin" is Яussian for "Bully"?

It isn't but it should be.

Riley

In 1973 , the South Vietnam army drove back an a full blown invasion with US air power and finally drove the communists to the negotiation table. The communists really thought the war was unwinnable.

The US democrat controlled congress then started with the same chickenshit rhetoric as the republicans today. ( lets give peace a chance, lost cause, South Vietnamese corruption etc etc ) and then pulled all funding for ARVN. No bullets, no paychecks. The North Vietnamese who were still well supplied by the Soviets and Chinese then rolled over South Vietnam.

Sadly, History will repeat itself in Ukraine.

As for my part in the Ukraine in the conflict, I am currently helping with Refugee resettlement in my community. If I didn't have a family to protect and provide for, it sure would be tempting. Real red dawn shit.

BettyHumpter

"Well stated. Please look into joining the International Legion of Defence of Ukraine.

Fight for Ukraine (fightforua.org)

Thank you for your service."

So, unless Riley enlists in the Ukrainian military, his opinion that we should assist them with military hardware is invalid?

Does it work like that in other areas too?

If he was in favor of tax dollars being used to aid another country experiencing a famine, does he need to fly to that country and begin farming?
If he goes before the city council and voices his support for a new highway, does he need to work on the road crew?
Was lend/lease to Britain in WW2 (before the US was officially in the war) a bad idea? Should Roosevelt have said "If anyone cares so much about the UK, then they can take a boat over there and learn to fly a Spitfire"?

waton

Are you really including Pearl Harbour in with these other two?

Perhaps Japan felt that an attack on Hawai's military was justified given the encroachment of whitey on the Asian hemisphere they considered their domain.

In history it often took a small spark. or a [mis]-match to start an conflagration.

BettyHumpter

"Perhaps Japan felt that an attack on Hawai's military was justified given the encroachment of whitey on the Asian hemisphere they considered their domain."

Of course they did. They stated as much. The whole 'east asia co prosperity sphere' was outwardly to kick the colonialists out and let Japan take what they considered it's rightful place.'

Pearl Harbor was to knock out the US Fleet and giving them 6-12 months to grab as much as they could, dig in and (they hoped) make it costly enough that the US would say its not worth it and keep what they had conquered.

They may have even had some support from the colonised asian countries had they not been so horrifically brutal to the people they were claiming to liberate.

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

So, unless Riley enlists in the Ukrainian military, his opinion that we should assist them with military hardware is invalid?

Of course not, don’t be silly. As this is a discussion forum, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. And Riley has exercised his, including telling former Jehovah’s Witnesses that they think like Watchtower. I kindly suggested that his energies might be better focused on joining the battle himself. As President Zelenskiy has stated on more than one occasion, no contribution to the Ukrainian defence is too small.

I am also entitled to my opinion that there is such a thing as war profiteers who would have easily found another one had Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putin not rolled his tanks into Ukraine.

So we have an old style “Mexican stand-off”. Sure, piling in more weaponry into Ukraine will certainly give Mr Putin something to ponder and roll back the frontlines. He can also completely wipe out the Ukrainian electricity grid & shell innocent civilians in response. When does it end?

Shall troops be landed on Taiwan to fend off another “Hitler”? How about rolling tanks across the DMZ in Korea because a wannabe Hitler has launched a few missles over Japan?

Ukraine says it wants it all back which is certainly reasonable but also impractical at the same time. Even the folks who are inclined to overthrow Putin are not handling Crimea back.

Whilst these dueling armies fight it out & war profiteers count their winnings, who suffers? The people do. It’s easy to play war games from thousands of kms away but if I were in harm’s way I’d desire a diplomatic solution.

But I’m just a poster on JWN, what do I know?

BettyHumpter

"and then pulled all funding for ARVN. No bullets, no paychecks"

Not completely true.

Fiscal year July 1974-June 1975 Congress approved $700 million in aid. Nixon had requested $1.45 Billion.

You may be right that the ARVN could have held the line on their own given enough aid. I don't know enough about the endgame of Vietnam to say. But no way would ground troops or air support have remained or rather,been recommitted at that point. It seems to me we had been running on the sunk cost fallacy already for years.

Riley

Something that doesn't to make US history books is post 1970, the South Vietnam army had become a capable fighting force, the government was rather stable and the communists had become rather unpopular in the South. The whole anti-war movement was more about the prospect of rich kids getting drafted than an actual moral opposition to the war.

I digress.

This new world order is people like Putin, Erdogan ( Turkey), Bolsonaro ( Brazil), Orban ( Hungry ) even Trump. Populist assholes with peddling simple answers to stupid people. The fight in Ukraine is about so much more. Are we going to do the right thing or is the world just going to become a series of strongmen ruling the world.

BettyHumpter

"Something that doesn't to make US history books is post 1970, the South Vietnam army had become a capable fighting force, the government was rather stable and the communists had become rather unpopular in the South. The whole anti-war movement was more about the prospect of rich kids getting drafted than an actual moral opposition to the war."

Hmmm. Well...you're an interesting cat. You seem to believe Vietnam could have been salvaged post 1970. I think the idea is fruit loops.

Just curious, did you read Robert McNamara's memoir / mea culpa that he put out in the mid 90s?

Diogenesister

Seems that Russia’s military power is much less than it’s reputed to be. No guess how it will all end.

Unless....does anyone think Russia is holding back because so many Russians have Ukrainian connections?? It seems like every other Russian was born there, or partner was born there, or grandmother was Ukrainian etc etc ?!

Will Ukraine win?

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