Hope I don't kill this link....
No need to worry dude......I'll take care of that for you right now
There.........NOW the thread will die.....I have spoken!
Gumby
Christianity is the worst disaster in human history!
by happysunshine 59 Replies latest watchtower bible
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ISP
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/47548/1.ashx
Some early christians ate babies.
Its not that good, make a few quid though!
ISP
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greven
Nice site!
Bookmarked it!
Thanx alot!
Greven
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JT
It's clear, to some, that the Witnesses is only a tiny branch on a diseased tree of religion. Sadly many who read Raymond Franz's book(s) which exposed the Witnesses will refuse to come near books and information that exposes the Christians belief system as a whole. Few are willing to have their religious rug pulled out from under them. Few, want to know truth that bad.
POINT WELL TAKEN, but i don't know - one thing i have noticed is that a large number of former jw , take it to the next level after questioning wt they move on to the entire structure i guess that is why we see so many agnosic/athiest folks here it's like "LAYS" potatoe chips , you can just ASK ONE QUESTION SMILE
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hooberus
It seems rather inconsistent to me that the first site listed (jesusneverexisted.com) treats the other Jesus's as actual historical figures and then states that the Jesus of the Bible (whom we have many historical accounts of from various authors) never existed !
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hooberus
I strongly suspect that if the jesusneverexisted site wished to disprove the existence of one of the other Jesus's that the site would have listed Jesus of Nazareth as a historical figure along with the others, who lived during that time.
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Abaddon
Wow, three posts all by yourself...
You say;
I strongly suspect that if the jesusneverexisted site wished to disprove the existence of one of the other Jesus's that the site would have listed Jesus of Nazareth as a historical figure along with the others, who lived during that time.
The sites says;
Josephus, the first century Jewish historian mentions no fewer than nineteen different Yeshuas/Jesii, about half of them contemporaries of the supposed Christ!
It also says, regarding the magic paragraph;
In a single paragrah (the so-called Testimonium Flavianum ) Josephus confirms every salient aspect of the christ-myth:
and
Not a single writer before the 4th century – not Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian, Arnobius, etc. – in all their defences against pagan hostility, makes a single reference to Josephus’ wondrous words.
The third century Church 'Father' Origen, for example, spent half his life and a quarter of a million words contending against the pagan writer Celsus. Origen drew on all sorts of proofs and witnesses to his arguments in his fierce defence of Christianity. He quotes from Josephus extensively. Yet even he makes no reference to this 'golden paragraph' from Josephus, which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. In fact, Origen actually said that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ."
and;
The passage is out of context. Book 18 starts with the Roman taxation under Cyrenius in 6 AD, talks about various Jewish sects at the time, including the Essenes, and a sect of Judas the Galilean. He discusses Herod's building of various cities, the succession of priests and procurators, and so on.
Chapter 3 starts with a sedition against Pilate who planned to slaughter all the Jews but changed his mind. Pilate then used sacred money to supply water to Jerusalem, and the Jews protested. Pilate sent spies among the Jews with concealed weapons, and there was a great massacre.
Then comes the paragraph about Jesus, and immediately after it, Josephus continues:
'And about the same time another terrible misfortune confounded the Jews . . .'
Josephus, an orthodox Jew, would not have thought the Christian story to be 'another terrible misfortune.' It is only a Christian who would have considered this to be a Jewish tragedy.
Paragraph 3 can be lifted out of the text with no damage to the chapter. It flows better without it. Outside of this tiny paragraph, in all of Josephus's voluminous works, there is not a single reference to Christianity anywhere.
... which kind of destroy the point made at the web site you posted, that 'maybe' the Arabic translation allows the original to be reconstructed; it's based on the assumption that there WAS an original, when this doesn't appear to be a reasonable assertation.
Also, as is traditional in these discussions, I must ask you why there is no corroberation from contemporary accounts of the dead rising when Jesus was ressurected and going around preaching. People might have noticed this. Even if they weren't dancing to 'Thriller' at the time, people would have probably made some note of large numbers of dead people wandering around.
Also, amusingly, the site you list uses a reference to Jesus ben Pandira, who lived in a different CENTURY to any historical Jesus, as evidence for Jesus. Wonderful scholarship! I must check more of the links you post and see if its representative.
But returning to your original point, the strawman attack that "if the jesusneverexisted site wished to disprove the existence of one of the other Jesus's that the site would have listed Jesus of Nazareth as a historical figure along with the others", from the above you can see it to be untrue, as bar the suspect paragraph, there's not the evidence to list Jesus with the other Jesuses.
That is the whole point Hooberus.
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hooberus
Abaddon, the site I linked was itself very cautious about the Josephus references. I will when time permits post some direct references from 1st century accounts of Jesus of Nazareth.