Christianity is the worst disaster in human history! (page 3)

happysunshine

Well done Abbadon! Glad the link could help you all in your search for objectivity. -J

The third century Church 'Father' Origen, for example, spent half his life and a quarter of a million words contending against the pagan writer Celsus. Origen drew on all sorts of proofs and witnesses to his arguments in his fierce defence of Christianity. He quotes from Josephus extensively. Yet even he makes no reference to this 'golden paragraph' from Josephus, which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. In fact, Origen actually said that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ."

While Origen did not quote the "crucifixion of Jesus" passage from Josephus, he did quote the passage by Josephus on James the brother of Jesus the Christ. Here is the original from Josephus. I may later post the qoute of this by Origen. Thus james the brother of Jesus as well as Jesus were according to Josephus historical figures. These facts later were quoted by Origen.

49.	Stoning of James, the Brother of Jesus [62 CE]
199	Hanan (II) the younger---who was appointed to the high-priesthood [in 62 CE]...---was rash in temper and exceptionally daring. He followed the sect of the Sadducees, who are in fact more harsh than all the (other) Jews in judicial matters..
200	This Hanan thought that he had an hour of grace, because Festus [the Roman procurator] had died and (his successor) Albinus was just beginning his journey to Jerusalem . So he convened the Sanhedrin of judges and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus, the reputed Messiah, and some others. He accused them of having transgressed the Torah and delivered them up to be stoned.
201	Now those who seem to be the most fair of those in the city---those who were strict in keeping the Torah [= the Pharisees]---were deeply shocked by this and sent (a messenger) to king [Agrippa II], to call on (Hanan II) not to do such things. For he was not right in the first thing he had done.
	--- Josephus , Antiquities 20.199-201

hooberus

The quotes Roman Historian Tacitus (A.D. 112) also show Jesus to be a historical person.

189.	Nero persecutes Christians in Rome
44	Neither human effort nor princely largesse nor divine appeasement was able to dispel the scandal that the fire (which burned much of Rome in 64 CE) was believed to have been commanded (by the emperor Nero ). So, to do away with the rumor, Nero substituted as culprits those who were commonly called "Christians," who were hated because of their absurdities. And he inflicted them with the most extraordinary punishments. "Christus," the source of this name, was executed during the reign of Tiberius by the sentence of the procurator, Pontius Pilate . And the destructive superstition was suppressed, only to break out in the present, not only in Judea---the source of this evil---but also in the city (of Rome), where all hateful and shameful things flow and find a following. Thus, first those who confessed (to being Christians) were seized; then, on their testimony a huge crowd as convicted---not so much on the charge of arson as for hatred of the human race. And while they perished there was additional ridicule. Having been covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn apart by dogs. Or they were fixed to a cross or were set aflame. And when the daylight faded they were used as lamps by night.
	--- Tacitus , Annals 15.44

hooberus

Also the New Testament books themselves provide evidence that Jesus was a historical person since they were written by different authors and were written during the first century as witnessed by historical persons such as:

Clement of Rome (A.D. 95) who quoted from: Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1 Corinthians, Titus, Hebrews, and 1 Peter The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict p. 44

Ignatius (A.D. 70-110) who quoted from: Matthew, John, Acts, Romans, 1Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Collossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, James, and 1 Peter The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict p. 44

hooberus

Abaddon said:
But returning to your original point, the strawman attack that "if the jesusneverexisted site wished to disprove the existence of one of the other Jesus's that the site would have listed Jesus of Nazareth as a historical figure along with the others", from the above you can see it to be untrue, as bar the suspect paragraph, there's not the evidence to list Jesus with the other Jesuses.

I plan on listing more evidence showing Jesus to be historical. But what I have already listed is probably more historical evidence for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth than for most of the other persons listed on the "jesusneverexisted.com" site. Also, I verified the quotes from Josephus (the James qoute) and Tacitus from a hard volume.

hooberus

The first century testimony of the apostle Paul (ad 64), which agrees with the Roman historian Tacitus:

"I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;" 1 Timothy 6:14

hooberus

The first century testimony of the apostle John:

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)" 1 John 1:1-2

hooberus

The first century testimony of the apostle Peter:

"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:" 1 Peter 5:1

That this is a first century testimony can be backed up by the following early authors:

Clement of Rome (A.D. 95) who quoted from: Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1 Corinthians, Titus, Hebrews, and 1 Peter The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict p. 44

Ignatius (A.D. 70-110) who quoted from: Matthew, John, Acts, Romans, 1Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Collossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, James, and 1 Peter The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict p. 44

hooberus

"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount." 2 Peter 1:16-18

rem

Hooberus,

Could you please start consolodating your multiple posts into one single post from now on? Your multiple posts make the threads many pages longer than they need to be. Plus it's just downright annoying.

rem

Christianity is the worst disaster in human history!

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