by xenawarrior 188 Replies latest jw friends
PR_,
I would probably do the same thing as you man... I would be sitting right next to my kid watching what they were reading what they were.
Dude, your a bit younger than I, but if you feel that way, you will make a great dad someday!!!
NI (of the,"weather its mine or not im gonna be the best dad i can be klass")
I find it very interesting that some of the ones loudly calling for the safety of children in chat and on this site are some of the most abusive and predatory ones in chat and are using this site as a launching point to prey on others offsite. The hyprocrisy is incredible.
Such ones would do well to put "their money where their mouth is" and make chat and this site a safe place for the adults here as well as the kids. Then maybe this site would become a safe haven for all. Though I know from my experience with Lee that even predators have a conscience when it comes to children. Maybe the predators here are worried that they might screw up and "accidentally" screw with a child. I must admit I question their motives. But, hell, sometimes the most abusive of adults have a soft spot for kids. I have been around enough very sick people to know that even they are capable of being human as well.
The first step to stopping abuse of children is to stop abuse period. It is folly to present oneself as wanting to keep children safe, when one does not care about the safety of adults as well.
The argument of night vs day is bogus, as has been pointed out. This site is international, and it is always daytime somewhere.
Perhaps an age registration feature could be added so that when a child posts or goes into chat, the site puts a symbol by the poster's name. This way, at least we would have some indication that a child is present. The problem is that such a system is easily defeated. Even the ones that require a credit card number can be easily defeated by a child....all the child has to do is steal a parent's credit card for a few minutes. But it would be better than nothing.
One simple way would be a flag that is set if a person registers without some form of adult ID like a credit card. And the flag cannot go away without Simon doing it. So if a child registers and has not "borrowed" their parent's credit card, they are flagged as such and can't change it afterwards. Yes, this can be defeated...and yes...those who did not have credit cards would be at a disavantage.
There are other methods...like the flag simply indicates the presence or non-presence of a credit card number having been entered...most of us know each other, so if we saw the flag, we would probably know if the person was an adult anyway.
The credit card number does not have to be stored....software can only confirm that the number is valid and set the flag. There is software out there that does this already. Or, a person can email simon and give alternate proof like a drivers license number (or a scan of a driver's license). This is simply technical details, and relatively easy to figure out for most cases. Let's face it, no site can keep out a determined and technically savvy teenager.
I think this site should be open for "family" viewing. Once people are aware of the presence of a child, they seem to tone down the adult conversation....and JW kids need a place to heal too, so they should be included. Most people here, when they know a child is present, will control themselves. We can all live with a night or two without shameless flirting and abusive situations.
UR, I like you and am sorry to see you leave. You are but part of a small but growing stream of people leaving this site. There are certain people one cannot piss off here, and if you are not liked by the right people, there are groups of people who will make you miserable till you leave. It is a fact of this board, plain and simple. What is galling is that some of these same people are in this thread "trying to keep children safe". What a sad, sad, joke.
Richard
Thank you brudda!
(((((((((((((((((((((( Not Interested )))))))))))))))))))))) *cough* (a manly hug that is)
Kansas District Overbeer of the "I wanna be a daddy someday" class
Simon, look at my post that I made just a few minutes earlier. I have some suggestions for a semi-practical age feature in it. There are some other points about this site made in it that you may wish to consider as well.
Richard
Utopian, I am saddened by your leaving.
Is this a place for children? Let's leave that decision to their parents, please.
U_R, please know that I hope you change your mind about leaving.
Take care
And the adults do have a chat room already.
Excuse me, pardon me, excuse me....ummmmmm......
where is it written, aside from this thread I mean, that the chatroom is just for adults?
Silly, silly me, I can't find that anywhere.
call me a b*$ch if you'd like
*cough* *ahem*
is it just me, or is there a lot of irony in the choice of words used in a thread "concerned" about the little people present? (and in direct violation of posting guideline #3)
Farkel, in my experience, is an articulate poster who exhibits intelligence both intellectually and emotionally in his dealings with people on this board. Farkel, has never attacked me. He's got brains enuf to see things from the other persons perspective. (He's also quite capable of standing up for himself on this, I know.)
If we are gonna start naming names of posters we see as unlikely to think before they speak/post, taking into account the "all ages" nature of this forum as well as, and perhaps most importantly, the psychological/emotional sensitivities on this forum, *ahem*
.....let's just say Farkel is NOT the top of my list. (not that i would make a list, cuz that would be in direct violation of posting guideline #1)
While we're weighing in about who does and does not belong in the chatroom on a forum of this nature.....in my opinion, the teen ex-witnesses have more right and even need to be here than some self-proclaimed "adult", never-even-been-a-witness. Perhaps the non-exwitnesses, who really exhibit little clue as to what the actual ex-witnesses of all ages around here are coping with could take their self-righteous "i'm right because i feeeeel strongly about this" attitudes and go find some other internet playground if they insist on "night-time adult chat".
I guess sometimes even we "adults" forget where we are. This is not an adult chat line, it is a JDUB FORUM. If anyone should change or leave, it ain't the kidz.
Pretty fun place if you ask me.
Just gotta ignore one or two of the "never-been" klass
SPAZ
I think a parent should have a pretty good idea about what their kid gets up to on the Internet; I know I would if I lived with my daughters. At the same time, I know that the more trust and respect you show a kid, the more they open up to you.
If they know that they can talk about anything with you, they have the biggest protection you could desire for.
My 12 year old daughter told me recently she'd tried a cigarette. I know she'd never tell her mother, but she felt safe telling me. I was fine, as she'd tried it, didn't like it, and had told me. It meant I could talk to her about the whole topic of drugs in a very open fashion.
At the same time, I think unless there is something pretty clearly inappropriate happening, to jump in and judge another parent's wisdom before having even ascertained what the facts are is dumb. I wonder what the reaction of people who do that would be if someone who hadn't checked their facts told THEM they weren't looking after their kids properly, or implied it, in a public area.
I also think parents kid themselves. Having an open relationship with my daughters mean that I know what happens at school. It is not a Methodist picnic. Kids are rude and crude and always have been. Adults have always pretended otherwise.
I prefer not to maintain this pretense. I can share in a disapproving conversation my daughter instigates about a girl in her class who she thinks has 'done it', and it's GREAT. A relaxed conversation where I can make sure she knows that her friend might just be lying, as people do, that it's far too young if it is true, and why, about the risks, and learn that she likes boys but find the idea of sex physically repulsive (her exact phrase was (complete with theatriucal shudder) "I don't want a boys stuff up inside me"). I get to tell her that's NATURAL to feel that sex is icky at her age, but that it might change in a half-dozen years or so (she was skeptical over this!). Hell, I love being so close to my daughter she can talk to me about not starting her periods yet and how she feels about the eventuality.
She needs it as she's being raised by an over-protective, over-reactive, nominal JW who doesn't attend meetings but is still in mental thrall to the Borg. I never could have a normal conversation with that woman, I don't see how my daughter could! 8-).
I digress. Jumping on another parent's actions without facts is dumb. Expecting a web-site to act en loco parentis is dumb. Thinking that pre-teen kids live in a sanitised world is dumb.
You cannot srap trainer wheels to your kid and let them peddle off, expecting them, when they rip 'em off themselves, to be able to ride. If you do that, they'll fall off.
You cannot stick a kid on the back of a tandem, and then expect them to be able to ride a normal bike just by following your example. If you do that, they'll fall off.
You have to take the trainer wheels off and run with them guiding and stabilising them until they realise they can do it themselves. If they get a little ahead of you and fall whilst they're learning, you're close enough to help, but not to close to intefere with them growing up.
Okay Uncle Bruce:
I'll have a go at this with ya... I might preface this by saying that you can insult me all you want to.
"old woman" is the thinking type that comes to mind with some of the censorship people here.
You forgot to say that comes to "your" mind. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am mine. Neither one of us speak for the masses here.
People who deem to tell others how to raise thier kids have always rung alarm bells in me.
If that is what you feel I was doing, so be it. I was voicing my opinion, I wasn't telling Utopian what she should do. I was talking about what I would do with my own child and what I feel about the presence of children myself. She can do what she wishes with her own children. I will respond in this forum the way I wish. I have said several times - it is up to the parents. Just don't ask me as an adult to walk on eggshells because of their choice as a parent.
You was kinda dissing Farkel though wasn't ya lol. .. no, i see what you're saying and it makes perfect sense to me .. it always feels uneasy having kids in the chatroom (us degenerates being ewhat we are) but i think the chatroom is a very different thing to the main forum here. From what i've seen in the chatroom, kids have been well protected by responsible adults here
No, I wasn't. I have a great deal of respect for Farkel. And he doesn't suffer fools. Now please don't try to infer that I think children are fools- that isn't what I'm saying and it's not what I believe. But if someone posts something and Farkel happens upon it- he will take someone to task for validity and facts. He can be very tough on people. That isn't a slam on him and if he's reading this he knows that is how I view him and how I feel about him. He also may happen upon a post by a 12 year old and not realize it was written by a 12 year old and respond in a tough manner.
And yes, there have been kids in the chatroom well protected by responsible adults there. And they knew they were looking out for and protecting a kid ! This "kid" didn't say she was a kid !! She was in there on her own, unsupervised and only one (as far as I know) person there even knew she was a kid! How to protect that? And is it my responsibility? I don't think so and I don't care for the responsibility being placed on me because she happens to be there nor the inference that I'm not a "responsible adult" if I don't wish to take on that responsibility.
You put up a premise that didn't match your conclusion. In fact the example you chose undermined your whole argument.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I didn't say she was in danger. I said the potential was there. I'll repeat what I said before, cuz I know how much you love it when us idiots do that: I posted the link because it was in that post she listed her age. I DID NOT have a problem with her " Galileo" post. Please don't suggest that I did okay?
true but can you demonstrate there has ever been a problem like that here? Or are we whisting past the graveyard on this? Your example sucked big time xena (i was involved in a couple of famous incidents in jwd chat and believe me the predator was in far more danger than the kid)
I didn't say there was a "problem" like that here (with children). I said there was a danger on the internet in general. No whistling here- very amusing I might add You may think my example sucked- I'm okay with that. The fact is the internet is a dangerous place for kids.
oooo you making me think hard on that one Xena. (pity it bears precious little resemblance to the example you opened with) I guess my answer was yes. Like I said, my girls are very bright and not easily lead (i'm lucky i guess)
Well, you can insult all you'd like Unc. My daughter is very bright as well and also not easily led. My not wanting her chatting in an adult chat room does not make her the opposite of that nor me unlucky.
I'm in two minds about having children in chat but i guess what struck me most about your post was that;
1) Your argument was weak and invalid (ones premise must be true and fit ones conclusion for it to be otherwise)
2) You hurt a good mother and daughter by using them in an invalid argument.
Again, your opinion and you are entitled to it. You may believe my argument was weak and invalid- you speak only for yourself.
If you truly feel that I hurt a good mother and daughter by voicing my opinion here, my point is made. I haven't been nasty or attacking or anything near that. I meant no harm in any way. If someone voicing an opinion is going to hurt them so badly- being in the chat room unsupervised is not a place for that 12 year old.
I think you and I have beaten this to a dead horse stage between the two of us, Uncle Bruce. You've given yourself the opportunity to flex your "volleyball" muscles here and I must go to bed now.
Kisses right back attcha- cleanshaven here too !!
XW
Skeptic,
You seem to have a hidden agenda. Don't use this thread to try too trash other people that are TRULEY concerned about children and what they see on this board. Get some CLASS!!!
Spaz:
some self-proclaimed "adult", never-even-been-a-witness. Perhaps the non-exwitnesses, who really exhibit little clue as to what the actual ex-witnesses of all ages around here are coping with could take their self-righteous "i'm right because i feeeeel strongly about this" attitudes and go find some other internet playground if they insist on "night-time adult chat".
Care to be just a little more specific about who you are talking about here?
XW
