Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE? (page 15)

Finkelstein

It should be easy to see for truth seeking individuals that the WTS's calculating doctrine of 607/1914 is false , not just from a chronological review of the bible but by Jesus's own pronouncement that No One Knows of the Time, so you can throw Pyramidology and counting times from the destruction of Jerusalem in the trash.

It should be noted that the WTS was first calculated 1914 from Pyramidology.

The WTS has been preaching a tainted commercialized version of the Gospel of Jesus for over 140 years in its literature proliferation agenda.

People wishing to be true Christians are more loyally adherent to Jesus and his spoken word rather than men running their own religious publishing house

scholar

cha ching

The big problem for Neo-Babylonian Chronology with its dependence on numerous business tablets is that is falsified by the historic period of Jeremiah's 'seventy years'.

scholar

MeanMrMustard

No it is not a simple verse to translate for the Hebrew allows for different translations of this verse. The nations would be in servitude but we do not know what specific histories apply to these nations but only with Judah is its servitude to Babylon defined.

Babylon's account to judgement could only begin after the seventy years had been fulfilled which rules out 539 BCE so this verse 12 could only apply after the release of the Jews in 537BCE in the straits of time with the gradual desolation of the kingship, city and land as foretold also by Isaiah.

scholar

bennyk

The accounts in Josephus indicate that the temple (and Jerusalem) lay desolate FIFTY years (Apion 1:21), which fifty years were a part of the SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE (Antiquities 11:1:1). Apion 1:19 does NOT contradict this; it confirms that the fifty year's period of desolation occurred "during the interval of seventy years". The prophecies in Jeremiah do not indicate seventy years of "desolation", nor of "deportation" or 'captivity' (whether of a specific group, or viewed in the aggregate), but of servitude, i.e. "vassalage". Note that the prophecies as recorded in Jeremiah do not even require deportation and exile at all: pls cf. Jer. 27:7,8,11-13,17; 38:17,18.

The SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE (Antiquities 11:1:1) run from 609 B.C.E. (following the Assyrian Empire's crushing defeat at Haran and the subsequent vassalage of Judea to Babylon) until 539 B.C.E. (when Babylon itself was defeated). The FIFTY years of DESOLATION for the Temple (Apion 1:21) run from 587 B.C.E. (when Jerusalem and its Temple were destroyed) until 537 B.C.E. (when the foundations of the Temple were laid [second year of Cyrus]). The several deportations occurred at various times during the seventy years, but the SERVITUDE of Judea as a nation need not begin with any of the deportations as recorded in the Bible.

Finkelstein

The so called self described bible scholars of the Watchtower Corporation were not academically trained bible scholars, none of them ever were, they were executive editorial writers for the WTS.

They were both ignorant and corrupt.

"The Truth" structured in fact based reality.

cha ching

Yay!!!! Babylon the DATE has fallen!

Sanchy

Scholar wrote: "The correct interpretation indeed is found in that same chapter and therein you have both a literal and figurative application as nicely presented in WT publications."

I used to think you might be ignorant on the matter, but I'm beginning to realize that you are just flagrantly dishonest. The "correct interpretation indeed is found in that same chapter and therein you have both a literal and figurative application"? This is a glaringly shameful loe

Nowhere in that passage is a second "figurative" application given. To suggest otherwise is dishonesty. Luckily, anyone can open up the bible and see for themselves that Daniel 4 has one interpretation, as given by Daniel himself.

The fact that you have to turn to "WT publications" to be presented with a second "figurative" interpretation of Dan 4 is in fact proof enough of the eisegetical nature of your analysis.

Scholar wrote: "it is a beautiful thing to learn that both the seventy years of Jeremiah and the beginning of the Gentile Times of Dr. Luke or the Danielic's 'seven times' began in the same year"

One will not learn this nonsense anywhere in the Bible, for the concept is nowhere to be found in scripture. One must turn to the writings of premillenialist Adventist of the mid 19th century in order to come up with such a theory, only one of many funny math ideas presented at the time attempting to predict important dates.

MeanMrMustard

@scholar: Uhhhh. Based on your last response to me, you are either on of two things: 1) a troll, or 2) someone that has the same affliction, when flustered, as the sheriff of rottingham. Ref: https://youtu.be/CKhGiFOMsS0

But, for the lurkers and honest researchers that may stumble across this thread, on with the show:

No it is not a simple verse to translate for the Hebrew allows for different translations of this verse.

Actually, yes it is. Go to biblegateway.com, look up the verse, and then display all the versions and translations they have of that verse on one page. Read down the list. I guess you could make the argument everyone got it wrong... even the NWT committee...

The nations would be in servitude but we do not know what specific histories apply to these nations but only with Judah is its servitude to Babylon defined.

If you are a lurker, you may be wondering: “Is it just me, or was that last sentence a bunch of word salad?” It’s not you - it’s word salad. Hence my appeal to Sheriff of Rottingham syndrome.

If I had to guess what he is meaning to say, it would be: “Yes, ‘these nations’ would be in servitude, but the seventy years applies to Judah because... reasons.”

Babylon's account to judgement could only begin after the seventy years had been fulfilled which rules out 539 BCE ...

No, it doesn’t. The seventy years ends, then Babylon is held to account. Babylon is held to account in 539, therefore the seventy years ended sometime before its fall. Maybe 539... 540... 541... could be. But it can’t be after Babylon’s fall.

...so this verse 12 could only apply after the release of the Jews in 537BCE in the straits of time with the gradual desolation of the kingship, city and land as foretold also by Isaiah.

Sorry, you have a choice. Hold on to grammar, or 537. Can’t be both. I await more word salad.

scholar

MeanMrMustard

No for there are various translations for Jer.25:11such the New English Bible which renders the text this way:'For seventy years this whole country shall be a scandal and a horror,these nations shall be in subjection to the king of Babylon".

It is only for Judah that we a defined history for their servitude to Babylon as for the other nations roundabout we have no similar defined history.

Jeremiah clearly states that other nations would also serve Babylon but Judah would serve for a precise period of 70 years.

Babylon certainly received a judgement with its Fall in 539 BCE but the final calling to account only took place after the 70 years had ended in 537 BCE with its gradual demise in history leading to its total desolation.

So in verse 12 Babylon's judgement only begins after the end of the 70 years not before with its end of its city, kingship and land.

Nice and easy!!!!

scholar

sANCHY

Dan 4 presents both the literal and figurative application based on the simple fact of the use of the word 'times' not years' and the frequent use of God's Kingdom so these expressions take us beyond what happened to Neb.

Nevertheless, the beautiful thing remains as Jehovah is the Revealer of secrets.

scholar

Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

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