Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE? (page 18)

Sanchy

Scholar wrote: "My argument is indeed sound because it is based on a very careful and methodical exegesis of Daniel 4 which uses at least two key terms that takes the reader on a journey beyond the events of the 6th century right up to our day."

You're argument is nether sound, nor exegetical. You bring your own definition for the terms "Kingdom" and "Days" (eisegesis). You also apply your own bias into the chapter by injecting your own interpretations of the dream's elements, an act that completely disregards the scripture at Genesis 40:8 which states that "interpretations belong to God".

If God truly wanted us to believe that the dream found in the 4th chapter of Daniel applied to more than just the Babylonian King himself, and that it was to have a second application during some supposed future time that we just happen to be living in, he could have inspired Daniel to mention that the dream had a fulfillment at the "end of days" or "last days" or "end times", as Daniel included in other parts of his writings. But he did no such thing in the 4th chapter.

Scholar wrote: "What a marvellous journey which is not a flight of fancy but one of discovery seeing the broad tapestry of salvation history understood by most theologian"

No, it is not "marvelous" to go down a rabbit hole of lies, deceit, and of failed 19th century adventist biblical math formulas, such as 1914 chronology as preached by Watchtower and its followers.

Scholar wrote: "The reason for its lack of historicity gets down to the reliability of those court recorders or others who would have us depend on their NB Chronology which does not agree with proper Bible Chronology as understood by the celebrated WT scholars"

I think you got caught in your own trap. You questioned my assertion that the 7 times were literal years a few pages back and now you find yourself having to defend the idea once you realized your religious leaders teach the same thing.

Scholar wrote: "There are good reasons to connect the seven times with the seventy years as both time periods shared a common beginning namely 607 BCE with the Fall of Jerusalem which represented Jehovah's kingship for that is the tie that binds."

No there are not. You've failed to prove such an idea, and you won't ever be successful, because the Bible teaches no such thing.

RubaDub

I bet it has to do with that zero year. Everybody blames the zero year. If something is off, blame the zero year.

If you like 537 instead of 536, blame the zero year.

If you like 536 instead of 537, blame the zero year.

If you put a turkey in the oven and overcook it, blame the zero year.

If your car is under warranty and you miss getting it serviced on time, blame the zero year.

The WT says CT Russell got his calculations messed up due to the zero year.

Even 2 Corinthians 12:16 mentions, "Be watchful my brothers. There is a f'n zero year out there seeking to devour the faithful".

Friends, be careful.

Rub a Dub

Finkelstein

In adherence to theological honesty, the WTS should have never endeavored to make any date setting/calculation in its doctrinal expressions, why ?

Because Jesus said not to if one wanted to be a " TRUE " faithful follower of him.

scholar

Sanchy

The very fact that Daniel used the expression 'times' rather than 'years' proves exegetically that the tree vision lies beyond the days of Neb. Further, the many references to God's Kingdom or kingship also demonstrates that fact.

The journey of Bible Chronology leading to 1914CE validates the fulfilment of Bible prophecy known in theological terms as Eschatology.

Nope. Neb experienced 7 years of banishment just as foretold in the tree vision which has always been taught in WTS publications with a greater application as the gentile times of 2520 years.

The connection between the seventy years of Jeremiah and the seven times of Daniel are connected by the legal formula in Dan 4:17, 32

scholar

Sanchy

Scholar said: "The very fact that Daniel used the expression 'times' rather than 'years' proves exegetically that the tree vision lies beyond the days of Neb"

No, it does not "prove" such a thing whatsoever. The term used in Daniel 4 for "times" in Aramaic is "iddan" which simply translates to "years" when used in a definite amount.

This does not excuse, in the least bit, giving the dream a second interpretation.

Scholar said: "Further, the many references to God's Kingdom or kingship also demonstrates that fact."

This does not prove your argument in any way, shape or form. Again, for the 100x, nowhere in Dan 4 is the expression God's Kingdom used to suggest that the dream has a secondary interpretation, nor does the chapter connect the big tree from the dream with God's Kingdom as you and Watchtower claim.

God could have easily made it clear that the dream was to have a second interpretation for the "end times", as he had Daniel do elsewhere in his writings, but he didn't, because the dream has only one meaning, the one Daniel gave himself.

Scholar said: "The journey of Bible Chronology leading to 1914CE validates the fulfilment of Bible prophecy known in theological terms as Eschatology."

As a previous poster said, this is just word salad.

Scholar said: "The connection between the seventy years of Jeremiah and the seven times of Daniel are connected by the legal formula in Dan 4:17, 32"

Those verses are in no way whatsoever exegetically connected to Jeremiah's seventy years.

scholar

Sanchy

No! In Dan.4:16 ' iddanin' in Aramaic means appointed(definite) times or time periods. The Greek equivalent is 'ete' which means years but the LXX in this verse renders it 'Kairoi' which also means appointed times. The Latin word is 'tempora' which also means times and Years.

There are numerous occasions in Dan 4 where God's Kingdom or its equivalent is mentioned as per the following verses:3-thrice,17- once, 25 once, 26 -once, 32-twice, 34-thrice, 37-once. Thus it is quite clear that the language and terms used by Daniel give the tree dream a major or secondary fulfilment

Do you not like the salad.for I could add a little spice to it.

The connection between the seventy years of Jeremiah is well connected to the seven times of Daniel because both periods share the same beginning and theme over the Kingship of Jerusalem and God's Kingdom.

scholar

Sanchy

There is a clear connection of the tree dream with the seven times and the seventy years w beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem by Neb as explained in the Commentary on Daniel- Hermeneia series by foremostDanielic scholar John Collins. In his commentary he refers to the old Greek's rendering of Dan. 4 and in vs 19 "As for that tree being raised up and approaching heaven , and its trunk touching the clouds. You O King have been exalted over all humanity that is on the face of all the earth. Your heart was raised up in arrogance and power with regard to the holy one and his angels. Your deeds were seen, how you desolated the house of the living God on the occasion of the sins of his holy people.Refer p.111 and p.229 vs.17

scholar

Sanchy

No! In Dan.4:16 ' iddanin' in Aramaic means appointed(definite) times or time periods

It can also mean years

Scholar wrote: There are numerous occasions in Dan 4 where God's Kingdom or its equivalent is mentioned [...] Thus it is quite clear that the language and terms used by Daniel give the tree dream a major or secondary fulfilment

The mentioning of God's Kingdom or rulership in no way make it "quite clear" that the dream had a second fulfillment.

Scholar wrote: The connection between the seventy years of Jeremiah is well connected to the seven times of Daniel because both periods share the same beginning and theme over the Kingship of Jerusalem and God's Kingdom

This connection is only in your mind. The seventy years applied to the nations serving Babylon (Jer 25:11), the seven times applied to King Neb going mental (Dan 4:25)

Scholar: There is a clear connection of the tree dream with the seven times and the seventy years w beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem by Neb as explained in the Commentary on Daniel

There really isn't.

RubaDub

As I mentioned earlier in this thread (and quoting the Apostle Paul), it all comes down to the zero year.

Rub a Dub

Finkelstein

Within the entire Christian theological community the dating of 1914 by the WTS. is seen as a scam, a con or an act of apostasy/false prophesying.

The WTS used this dating scheme to help in the sales and proliferation of the literature the WTS published as it was not supported scripturaly.

There was and still is a structure of commercialized charlatanism which has been operating since its very beginning as an organization.

The WTS was able to exploit people's ignorance of what the bible really says and those took the WTS interpretation with confidence and the WTS was able to build a religion around it known today as the JWS.

There is an element of corruption inherently based in the WTS/JWorg but you have search behind the curtain so to speak.

The acumen of the WTS being a fear mongering corrupt religious publishing house is there, many now days are awakening up to that fact.

People like scholar posting here have invested much their lives supporting the WTS's doctrines as the organization has strategically indoctrinated them to do .

Certain men (elders) have basked in the accepted power of god in a social environment which has elevated their own personal stature and identity of themselves and they pretty much like it that way.

Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

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