US Patriotism VS the Rest of the World

by Xena 107 Replies latest jw friends

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  Xena

  Abaddon and I were having a discussion in another thread regarding the differences between US patriotism and European patriotism. Apparently some people consider the US to be peopled with rabid flag waving, my country right or wrong, ugly Americans. I am wondering what the general concensus of this board would be?

  Do the American's on here consider themselves patriotic and how do they display this? How do they view the Europeans attitudes toward patriotism?

  Do the Euorpeans on here consider themselves patriotic and how do they display this? How do they view the US attitudes toward patriotism?

  Personally I consider myself to be patriotic to a degree....I would stand for the anthem, but to be honest I don't feel comfortable saluting the flag, course it could be old JW issues still clinging. I am proud of being American in that I feel this country has done right by me and mine...I am a single woman raising a child and have a very comfortable standard of living...I feel that American has made some valuable contributions to society...I am aware that there are injustices and if I had the power I would change them, as it is I am just getting comfortable with the voting process...I don't believe in standing by your country and viewing everything it does as right just because it is your country anymore than I would condone my child lying, stealing or hurting another...I would still love her, but I would not condone her actions simply because she was my daughter.

  It does bother me when people of other nationalities constantly make negative comments about the country I live in...kinda like when someone bad mouthing your family....you know they have those bad qualites and probably complain about them yourself....lol and it ok for you to do it, but you will be damned if anyone else can...it isn't because I don't see the bad, but I see the GOOD too....and believe it or not there is a lot of good here...

  Abaddon made the comment that Americans seem to take these comments more personally than other countries and he may have a point, but I haven't seen a great many negative comments about other counties for me to judge how the posters from these countries would react to the incessent negative comments.
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  WildHorses

  It does bother me when people of other nationalities constantly make negative comments about the country I live in...kinda like when someone bad mouthing your family....you know they have those bad qualites and probably complain about them yourself....lol and it ok for you to do it, but you will be damned if anyone else can...it isn't because I don't see the bad, but I see the GOOD too....and believe it or not there is a lot of good here...

  That is exactly how I feel too.
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  outnfree

  Xena,

  I saw the beginning of this discussion. And I would characterize myself pretty much as you have characterized yourself. (Though I suppose I'd repeat the Pledge -- not having been brought up a JW -- I just don't know WHERE I'd be called upon to do so!) This is the part that bugs me:

  the incessent negative comments.

  I suppose it's the price to pay for living in a free land that has more wealth and power than many others. It's not that I think the U.S. has NO faults, on the contrary, we have starving children, corrupt politicians, broken down and ineffective social services, etc., etc., of our own, it's that many non-US posters here seem very quick to criticize our country, while the Americans do NOT criticize their respective countries. Why is that?

  If the truth be known, I dislike Jacques Chirac, for example. This isn't because of his recent stance on Iraq, however. I disliked him when I first observed him on the French political scene back in the early 70's. In fact, being the usual American fairly oblivious of world affairs (I think this may be what galls the rest of the world -- our insularism), I was actually shocked to discover that Monsieur Chirac was now Monsier le President -- almost 30 years later!

  I do think that American Patriotism is different than most countries'. We are almost naive compared to the Old World's cynicism and the Oriental's ruthlessness. I think we find it hard to conceptualize living in a place (like Europe, for example) where the people over the state line, so to speak, are completely different in language, culture and, sometimes, morals.

  Our next door NEIGHBOR might be all of those things, but has come here for a reason and is assimiliating U.S. culture. We revel in our neighborhood's diversity. We feel welcoming (even patronizing?) and glad that they've reached out for the American dream. We are happy with their success as they begin to melt into the same "pot" that our forefathers sampled. But we are all pulling together, citizens (or soon-to-be-citizens) of the same, very large, country. In other parts of the world, the next state, with its 'foreign' populace, is NOT pulling together with me and mine for the common weal. They are nation-states, in the U.S. we just have states (and Texas ;) ).

  Americans truly believe that we have the best form of government. Not the perfect form of government, just the best of many imperfect forms. It works pretty well at keeping our standard of living high, our education system fairly efficient, and our personal rights untrampled. We honestly "swallow [that pap]" about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" being inalienable rights (U.S. Declaration of Independence). We are proud of the religious freedom afforded to us in this country. NO state religion thanks to our Deist Constitution-framers!

  Americans truly believe they have something good to offer the world. Not only here in our own country, but anywhere our Armed Forces go. We think of ourselves as fair; the Good Guys. We don't think of ourselves (or our politicians) as heavy-handed, but sometimes we (and they) are. We try not to condescend, but dammit! We've got a good thing going here! And millions agree! That's why they flock to our shores.

  To the U.S. bashers here I say: Yes, our country is self-serving -- isn't yours? Doesn't your country try to protect its self-interests? Does your country's self-interest never conflict with another country's self-interest? If your country had the means (hard, cold, cash, technological know-how, resources, military force AND diplomacy) would it not employ those means to further its own interests, foster its ideals, preserve its own autonomy and safety?

  The problem may be that your country does not have the means, so it must think of itself as a small spoke in the greater wheel of civilization. Your country most certainly has a longer and more illustrious history than ours. You must, nonetheless, concern yourself closely with the other spokes, because if any of them should break, the entire wheel is weakened. What you cannot abide is that the United States of America is an entire wheel in itself. The axle of humanity joins us, and we do not forget that we must co-exist with all of you, but we do not share the same interdependency in many matters. Nonetheless, we must roll forward together in order for the world to progress.

  outnfree

  (stepping down off her soapbox)
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  larc

  Outnfree, my fine Michigander friend. That was one fine essay you wrote. You should send it to the Detroit Free Press - as fine a piece as any editorial I have ever read.
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  WildHorses

  outnfree, that deserves applause. Well done!
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  Prisca

  I find American patriotism to be excessive and very blinded. I haven't seen such "my-country-right-or-wrong" type attitudes anywhere else to the level that Americans celebrate their love for their country. It's not to say other countries, whether in Europe, Asia, Australia or Africa, are not nationalistic, but I'd have to say I don't see such blinded ignorant patriotism as expressed by the Americans.

  I know "blinded ignorant patriotism" are strong words, but that is how many Americans do come across. They claim they live in the best country in the world, yet how many of them have stepped outside their own country borders? Especially to a country with a different culture and language? If they haven't done this, or even studied extensively about other countries, or have constant exposure to other cultures/countries, then how can they truly say they live in the best country in the world?

  On what do they base their assertion that America is the best country in the world? From what they've been told in the schoolrooms (after having sung the National Anthem and said the Pledge of Allegence)? From their TVs (how many programmes on American television is made elsewhere (Canada excluded)?

  Now the same could be said about any citizens living in any country, but American patriotism is something that is unavoidable, especially in light of recent events in Iraq.
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  xenawarrior

  but I'd have to say I don't see such blinded ignorant patriotism as expressed by the Americans.

  If they haven't done this, or even studied extensively about other countries, or have constant exposure to other cultures/countries, then how can they truly say they live in the best country in the world?

  Prisca- tell me - have you studied extensively about our country?

  Wanna have that debate about U.S. history with me now? What exactly is the extent of YOUR knowledge about our country? I've asked you this in a previous thread when you slammed the U.S. and at that time you didn't want to take the time on a Sunday afternoon to look it up on the net.

  I would suggest that before you slam patriotic citizens of another country for what you assume is their lack of knowledge about other cultures and countries- get some of your own.

  This is the kind of Anti-American posting that is offensive to many. And so totally off base.

  People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

  XW
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  Prisca

  XW, my quote (in full) was:

  They claim they live in the best country in the world, yet how many of them have stepped outside their own country borders? Especially to a country with a different culture and language? If they haven't done this, or even studied extensively about other countries, or have constant exposure to other cultures/countries, then how can they truly say they live in the best country in the world?

  I have travelled extensively, to many countries, including the United States, where I even stayed with locals. I have constant exposure to various cultures, and I have also self-taught myself about other countries and cultures. And I dare say, I have far more exposure to American culture than you will ever have to non-American culture in a lifetime.

  XW, how much travelling have YOU done, or how much do YOU know about, countries other than the USA?
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  xenawarrior

  I have travelled extensively, to many countries, including the United States, where I even stayed with locals. I have constant exposure to various cultures, and I have also self-taught myself about other countries and cultures. And I dare say, I have far more exposure to American culture than you will ever have to non-American culture in a lifetime.

  XW, how much travelling have YOU done, or how much do YOU know about, countries other than the USA?

  I'm glad that you have had the opportunity to travel. So have I. I'm also glad that you were able to stay with "locals" when you visited here and they didn't force you to stay with our foreigners. I'm also quite glad that you didn't "self teach" others about other countries and cultures. And you know what? You can dare say anything that you'd like- I highly doubt it.

  You are asking me about me- I'm not the one slamming folks from another country here Prisca so don't turn the questions to ME- k?

  In any event-a person doesn't have to leave their country of origin in order to learn about other countries Prisca - an education and alot of reading can do that. People travel all the time and don't delve into the cultures of the countries they are visiting. So traveling isn't an assumption to learning. How would it be possible for our teachers to instruct others about the cultures of other countries if they hadn't traveled????

  In our cities there are many foreign cultures represented and the folks here are constantly exposed to that diversity. In addition, the United States is a melting pot of other countries and their cultures.

  BTW- I have an education and I also read a great deal and I was raised by a teacher who was a history major. She taught Geography for many years. Do you think I was exposed to any of that? And yes- I've traveled. I also have family in other countries. I also work for a company that gives me daily exposure to at least 3 different cultures. And I'm a bit older than you so you'll have some catching up to do hon.

  I still am wondering though- since you like to slam Americans so often- what your knowledge is of our country.

  XW of the "Dumb American Hick" class
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  mattnoel

  Ok well I am British but also lived over in ther states. I personally noticed that the Americans are VERY patriotic, on one hand this is good you are proud of your country and so you should be, but it can be the downfall of america, if the american govt do somethin wrong I can see you all disbelieving it to your own downfall. Its also very much the world of america, people dont go outside except to canada and mexico. We over here see you as extremely patriotic.........but on the other hand, Britain is not patriotic enough, Tony Blair has taken away English History from schools, we are not allowed to put our flags up because we will be told to take them down again because it would be deemed racist against our foreigners here (esp the assylum seekers) the British public are now being ratedsecond class below the assylum seekers who now get special treatment with their own window at the post office, extra benefits more money, nice houses while we have to work hard for where we live. The British are starting to rebel and you are starting to see flags up outside peoples houses, so it will change here eventually, but people are generally getting fed up and are starting to slowly become proud of their nation too.