Cult or Religion

by Richard C B 225 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Richard C B

  @cofty yes ok thats your view of Jesus millions would disagree
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  dhlpcjw

  I can understand to an extent what your saying Richard CB. And what I think your saying is that a certain measure of responsibility falls on the individual to how they internalize and react to what a cult or religion imposes upon them, and that the Bible should be what ultimately impresses upon them. And I could be misinterpreting that. (I'm agnostic now btw so I have little to no regard for anything the Bible has to say anymore)

  Personally at times this is how I deal with some of my frustrations with the organization. I look at all the misinterpretations of the Bible they use and ask myself why I allowed myself to be mislead for so long. I direct some of that anger at myself in an effort to turn those negative thoughts into a learning experience for myself so that I will not go about life placing too much trust in anything.

  My wife however strongly disagrees with this line of thought because as she has correctly pointed out to me that many (herself included) have been baptized at a young age thereby being affected by undue influence during a time when the human brain is extremely impressionable. They are raised believing there is no other option for truth outside what Watchtower offers.

  As far as what the definition of a cult is, I'm going with what Finkelstein posted previously.

  Also, since you are not very familiar with the Governing body or their history I strongly recommend researching jwfacts.com. If you are going to start a debate on cults in an ex-jw forum it would be beneficial for you to know what you're debating for or against.
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  Richard C B

  @cofty your out of line your being abusive
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  cofty

  The proof that Jesus was an egomaniacal cult leader and false prophet...
  Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
  Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first. - Matt.19
  
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  Richard C B

  @dhipchjw no your right sir, in some cases it would be how someone internalizes it as you said.
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  Richard C B

  @cofty yes that could be perceived that way.
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  breakfast of champions

  The clincher for me (as far as JWs being a cult) is that you can't make a conscientious decision to leave without losing your friends, family, everything. You can't just walk away.

  All the other stuff they do, the behavior control, information control etc. . . there are lots of groups that employ these tactics, and persons may or may not consider them cults.
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  Richard C B

  @breakfast, yes you can if you gradually fade out without committing a grave sin.
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  Heaven

  Regarding the question "What is a cult?", this can generally be answered 'any group who wishes to abnormally and adversely control people'. I think Steven Hassan's BITE model is one that can assist anyone needing to identify a group as a 'cult' or high mind control.

  I have to agree that most, if not all, religions do have cult tendencies, some being definitely worse than others. Cults encompass more that just religious groups. They can be non-religious in nature as well. Again, Steven Hassan has quite a list of groups that qualify on his website.

  Regarding Jesus, everything ever written about him came from someone who never met him. The authors of the gospels can't even agree on the accounts of his life. Jesus himself wrote nothing down.

  There were a lot of Messiahs back in these ancient times. Did Jesus of Nazareth actually exist? It is possible. But there is no record of this. There is far more physical evidence supporting the existence of the Philistines than Jesus. Bart Ehrman says Paul's letters indicate Jesus existed. Ehrman also says Jesus was an apocalyptic rabi who thought god was going to fix everything in his lifetime. Obviously this did not pan out. Did he walk on water? Did he rise from the dead 3 days later? Was he a man who became a god? No. This is pure fantasy.
  
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  OneEyedJoe

  On the topic of Jesus as a cult leader, Matt. 10:35 is another succinct argument for this:

  For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

  He wasn't shy about breaking up families due to some accepting him and others not, and this is one of the fundamental elements of every cult, including the JWs.