Tim

by teejay 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • teejay
    teejay

    Tim's been in the news. For a long time, I had my doubts that he was
    actually guilty, so much of the evidence against him being circumstantial.
    The prosecutors admitted as much. But then he confessed and began to
    make a lot of other cold-hearted comments.

    I lived a ten-minute drive away from downtown when the blast etched
    Oklahoma City into the national consciousness, about five miles as the crow
    flies. I had a rare day off and was at home that morning at 9:02 when the
    rumble came. I was still in bed and the thought occurred to me that
    something must have happened at the apartment complex where I lived. I
    called the office.

    "No, it wasn't here. I just talked to my girlfriend who works at The Greens
    Apartment complex (about 15 miles further out) and she said she heard it,
    too," the lady said. "I don't know WHAT that was."

    I turned on the TV. One local channel -- regular programming, then another --
    nothing special. Then a third. It had its helicopter in the air, flying around
    downtown. I recognized the scene -- knew exactly where it was. The
    helicopter was flying around this one building. The Alfred P. Murrah. I
    knew the building well. I'd been in it many times in the course of my job. It
    was a government building with an odd floor plan, I always thought. It
    always seemed to me that when it was built about three times the normal
    amount of steel and concrete was used in its construction. The visual playing
    out on the TV screen that morning didn't do justice to the massive size of
    the building. The building was HUGE.

    The helicopter circled around on the south side of the building, the plume of
    smoke clearly visible on an early spring day with picture-perfect weather,
    the kind of weather the tourist bureau dreams of. "I know where that is," I
    thought to myself. "What are they looking at?" The helicopter continued its
    counter-clockwise flight around to the east of the Murrah, then, within seconds,
    the full horror with all of its ugliness came into view. I'd been standing up in
    front of the tube, but when I saw that, I had to find a place to sit. That building
    was HUGE. What in the world had happened?

    For weeks (and ever since) the awful calamity was in the news. The
    devastating effects of the event are still being felt and probably will be for
    some time. Some may never fully recover. Back then, many would venture
    out to make a sort of pilgrimage around the building -- leave a memento at
    the fence that had been erected -- a teddy bear, a flower, a farewell note
    for a love that had been lost, for the workmate that was no more.

    "Man, you oughta go down there. You wouldn't believe it" people would
    tell me. Never the kind to follow the crowd, I declined. "I don't need to
    see it. I know the building, and I've seen it on TV." I kept that stance until
    the word came that the wreckage would be finished off. It would be
    imploded on Tuesday, 7a.m. sharp.

    I had no plans the Sunday before, so I went to see. So that I could say that I
    did. Another picture-perfect day. No wind. No clouds. Perfect weather. Just
    beautiful. Others had the same idea of coming to see the last weekend of the
    Alfred P. Murrah -- there must have been three or four thousand people
    walking around the eight or nine block radius that had been cordoned off.
    Hundreds and hundreds of people. Couples with babies in strollers or young
    children in hand. What struck me more than anything, a memory that still
    haunts me, is how quiet it was. Even then, I wondered how all those people,
    all those little kids and babies, made so little sound. I was down there for a
    couple of hours, and the quiet almost became deafening. It was weird, so
    quiet it was.

    I was df'd at the time so I made my trip alone. And walked alone but not
    for long. At one point, a Christian approached me. I didn't know the
    denomination and didn't ask. I didn't care. She had a kind face and a warm
    manner, not overbearing or preachy, so I endured the intrusion. I'd seen
    more than one of her group passing out tracts in my sojourn around the
    building. I assumed that her church was on some sort of mission to reaffirm
    for the public God's loving care and almighty power. She gave me a small
    tract and made a comment that was meant to soothe, something like: "God
    loves you."

    I was stunned by the incongruity of her words, considering the
    overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I happened to be on the north side
    of the building at the time, the side with the tremendously gaping absence of
    what was once tons of concrete and steel -- the tomb of 168 humans, several
    of them infants and children. Even though I was two blocks away from it
    right then, the massive building loomed seemingly right overhead, aching to
    add to the quiet dialog. It offered a silent but unmistakable counterpoint to
    the Christian's words. I personally saw little evidence of God's love, and to
    the lady's comment the Murrah seemed to agree, "Oh, yeah?"

    The Blast is far from the solitary example of man's inhumanity to his
    fellowman whilst an all-loving God watched in mute silence. It's perhaps
    not even the best example, probably not ranking in the top fifty all-time
    greatest atrocities, but it did bring home to me personally what hardships
    people all over the world and throughout history have been dealing with
    since forever, afterwards sending unanswered appeals heavenward. It
    reminded me of a question I asked several years ago when I began to
    question the things I'd been taught about God.

    I'd been taught that with the coming of the Messiah, Jehovah had all the
    response he needed to Satan's Edenic challenge, that no human could (or
    would) live a life of complete devotion to God without faltering. I'd been
    taught that a legal precedent how been established in a Universal Court of
    law. Since nothing more would be required to answer that four-thousand
    year old challenge, Jehovah was free to extend its benefits to mankind at
    any time. The questioned I asked and have since more or less found
    answered, is: "What is God waiting on?"

    Back on that spring day with the postcard perfect weather, as I ambled
    around a wreck of an office building in the company of several thousand
    other noiseless pedestrians, I was approached by a Christian and offered a
    tract that spoke of God's love for humankind. I quietly thanked her for her
    words and stuck the tract in my pocket. And I wondered about "God."

    peace,
    todd

  • mommy
    mommy

    Oh Todd,
    All I can really say right now is WOW. I remember that day as well, I was much farther away, living in Atlanta Ga. But the city went on lock down, because of the nature of the crime. I remember watching the T.V., biting my fingernails, Rejoicing every time they found just one more person in the rubble. I cried for weeks over this one, I really did.

    Recently someone gave me a link to a book that was written about Timothy. I was able to see his point of view in the whole situation. And I admit again to crying.

    In my life I have tried to figure out why I react a certain way to a situation. There is this gut feeling I follow since leaving the org. I no longer have a step by step to follow. I have relied on this inner voice and hope that others let themselves be guided by it.
    This is how I gauge people most of the time, by their reactions to certain situation. I think it is safe to say we can all wear many faces, and it is hard to truly see someone unless we have seen all aspects of his faces.

    My heart goes out out to the lives lost. And this also includes Timothy McVeigh.
    wendy

  • teejay
    teejay

    mommy,

    >>>Recently someone gave me a link to a book that was written about Timothy.
    >>>I was able to see his point of view in the whole situation. And I admit again
    >>>to crying.

    Reading his words, trying to see things from his point of view, has led me to
    admit that I share several (if not most) of his positions, especially those that
    deal with the lawless way the U.S. government has been known to mistreat
    its own citizens.

    There has been a minor uproar about his use of the term "collateral
    damage" when referring to the innocents that lost their lives. Especially
    painful to many is when this term was used for the children that were killed.
    Little media focus was paid to exactly where McVeigh got this term -- the
    U.S military.

    Still, he has shown a rather callous disregard for the people who had no
    voice in his political 'statement' but paid were their lives. I don't see him as
    the devil that many do, I don't see him as evil incarnate, but I DO think he
    has deep psychological problems that prevents him from owning up to
    certain facts. It's one thing to see the inhuman ways that a gov't agency
    implements a political objective. It's another thing to mimic their behavior
    and think that you are somehow different or better.

    >>>My heart goes out to the lives lost. And this also includes Timothy McVeigh.

    Me, too, although I'm very careful who I say that to. Many folks want to see
    the man fry. Me? I'm not so sure any good will really come from it. Yet, Tim
    is a pathetic individual, imo, and, sad to say, very little good has come from
    his time here on earth. Good thing he has no children 'cause if he did they'd
    pay hell.

    peace,
    todd

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    I don't see him as
    the devil that many do, I don't see him as evil incarnate,

    Just how worthless does a human have to be before you consider them worthy of the above imagery?

  • wasasister
    wasasister

    Beautiful writing about an ugly time in American History. I am in awe of your use of the language.

  • crossroads
    crossroads

    SIX-I hope i'm understading your comment right.
    McVeigh-is evil-is that right. Trust me I'm the biggest dove
    going so I do not condone violence of any kind.
    But if McVeigh is evil than any and all humans who
    started a revolution wether succesful or not need to
    be put in the same boat.

    The U.S. would be 2 or 3 countries if innocent
    children didn't die.Oh I'm sorry we would just be
    one big colony, Ruled by Brittian.

    McVeigh is no hero but I'm sure he was looking
    for one when the ATF shot a pregnant woman who
    was holding another baby of hers.[Ruby Ridge]
    Or when the U.S. goverment killed innocent children
    at Waco trying to save them. We the people stood back
    and did nothing, nothing.
    Just as our parents did when Nixon killed those students
    at Kent State for protesting an unjust war.
    Evil-Evil-looks to me to be in the eye of the beholder.
    Or the side of the revolution your on.
    Peace and Love
    Mark

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    You scare me Crossroads.

  • stephenw20
    stephenw20

    Six,

    I can attest to this fellas non violent nature..but he does have passion...and doesnt appreciate in justice..........I am not getting involved in this discussion.......

    just nothing good can come of it.......

    but read this again

    "Trust me I'm the biggest dove
    going so I do not condone violence of any kind."

    he is....
    S

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Yikes, I can't let it go that easy.

    trying to save them.

    See the difference?

    We the people stood back
    and did nothing, nothing.

    We watched, we prayed, we hoped they would save the children. For me, I hoped they would save the children even if it turned out to be at the expense of a painful slow death for that evil pimple on the ass of humanity, David Koresh.

    In the end, we cried. And in the end, isn't that all any of us could have done?

    Those children are dead because of one man, David Koresh, and because of that one man's followers. Now here is why you scare me Crossroads; you are no David Koresh, but your lack of objective thinking skills may put you right into the catagory that made up Koresh' followers.

    And if you are talking about a revolution, perhaps Tim McVeigh's followers. Even scarier.

  • crossroads
    crossroads

    Yes, Six I've been a follower of a more EVIL man than
    Koresh. He definitly killed more woman and children
    than that man did. I think for a time you did the same, his
    name FRED FRANZ-I don't know Six as far as evil goes
    that man is right on top of my list.

    My brother is right I hate injustice and prejudice,
    no more "a turn the other cheek"kinda guy are you
    gonna find than me.

    I knew my comments would not be taken well, actually
    I was hoping for more outrage. My point is if WE see evil
    We should do are best to stop it. I believe this broad
    could do great things-but instead of trying to stop the
    evil we know about we either wine about it or make jokes

    A little story just to make show you were crossroads
    comes from.
    The great and powerful OZ decided it didn't like what
    a certian leader had up his sleave. Rational decision
    lets bomb the hell out of N.Y. oh sorry Baghdad even
    more populated with innocent woman and children.
    As I sat and watched the bombing of that city live on CNN.
    I was feeding my 2-month old son. As I watched all I could
    think about was another poor father doing the exact same
    thing I was doing over in Baghdad.His crime he had an
    Evil leader wether he had anything to do with that or not
    I don't know and either did OZ. Yes I was the only one and
    it deeply surprised me so the ONLY one at the little league
    meeting that night that was sick about it. Maybe I think
    of Lennon's "Imagine" more than most, but We not only
    did nothing that night we ROOTED for OZ,
    Peace and Love
    Mark

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