Do You Think Trump Is Done?

by minimus 83 Replies latest jw friends

  • Journeyman
    Journeyman

    There are plenty of circumstances where someone can be guilty of a crime in fact, even if their intent is not proven. That doesn't make them innocent, it simply means any subsequent punishment for their guilt is reduced, to take account of the lack of (proof of) intent.

    Even if Trump believed that dishonesty had taken place which resulted in him losing the election, if any measures he took, or advice he gave to others, to counter that were themselves unlawful, he is guilty of a crime regardless of whether he "intended" to break the law. Bear in mind also, this is an experienced businessman and former president, not some junior executive taking his first steps in the real world. He had plenty of political and legal advice available to him to check and double-check his options, and from a range of legal and political positions, if he chose to consult them. Instead, his default choice was shooting his mouth off on Twitter and the like, as usual.

    However, I agree that with the current febrile atmosphere, political anger and accusations flying on both sides, and the way that the US judicial system is a public circus anyway during high profile cases (think OJ Simpson, Michael Jackson, Louise Woodward and goodness knows how many other cases), then it's hard to see how this mess will be settled once and for all by these lawsuits.

    I highly doubt that there is much that will happen to Trump ultimately. Frankly, even if it's a matter of damage to his 'reputation', he's so bullish that that will not matter to him, and with the combination of his wealth, his formidable support base and the protection he has from being an ex-President (and possibly soon to be back in the White House again), nothing serious will happen to him in terms of conviction and/or jail time.

    All of this will just turn into lots of media madness and political in-fighting, the biggest outcome of which will probably be to severely damage trust in the US political system, and maybe even cause public unrest in places, but I doubt it will touch the man himself.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    Here is a basic summary (intro), which seems exactly accurate at this point. Meant to be a joke, but in this clown world, it's real:

    https://youtu.be/DD-GEmea934

  • Simon
    Simon

    Does anyone genuinely believe that Clinton, Obama, and Biden aren't utterly corrupt and guilty of conspiring to profiteer from their positions and fix the election?

    For real, do people genuinely look at them, at all that has happened and think "duh, yeah, fine upstanding leaders right there!"

    If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

    They are all 3rd world dictator wannabes.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice
    Simes - Does anyone genuinely believe that Clinton, Obama, and Biden aren't utterly corrupt and guilty of conspiring to profiteer from their positions and fix the election?

    There will be those loyal to their tribe that will.

    As a Brit, I'm sick of hearing about American politics. It's meaningless to me, the politicians in the UK and USA are all corrupt filth.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    There are plenty of circumstances where someone can be guilty of a crime in fact, even if their intent is not proven. That doesn't make them innocent, it simply means any subsequent punishment for their guilt is reduced, to take account of the lack of (proof of) intent.

    Sure there are, but apparently this particular crime requires intent to subvert the Democratic process. Have you watched the video by Dershowitz? If Trump believed the election was corrupt then his actions were intended to uphold the process.

  • TD
    TD

    --The gun in the diamond store conundrum.

    You enter a jewelry store with a drawn pistol to stop a violent felony, you're a hero.

    You enter a jewelry store with a drawn pistol when there's no robbery in progress , then you are the felon.

    The indictment has clearly anticipated the, "I truly believed the election was stolen and acted in good faith" argument. (By noting that Trump ignored the army of attorneys in the Justice Department, his own hand picked Attorney General, his own head of Homeland Security, his own Vice President, etc., etc., and deliberately surrounded himself with lunatics.)

    Lauro (at least) seems to be focusing on Trump's right to believe what he wanted to believe without getting into the "why" of it.

  • FedUpJW
    FedUpJW

    @Simon

    Where is the bridge, and how much do you want for it? Can I pay for it with Biden-bucks? Will it span the Pacific Ocean?

  • Simon
    Simon

    It will, all those things - it's been built-back-better ... how can it fail?

    Disclaimer: bridge is not for driving on, walking on, and we recommend not standing under it.

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    It is literally a bridge too far.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Trump is done. Even loony Republicans will not select a convicted Traitor.

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