Do You Think “Higher Education “Is All That?? (page 6)

iwantoutnow

I find it interesting ,that those who characterise higher education negativity, for the most part have not attended university.

I find it quite predictable really.

RubaDub

... educated fools running around too. Watch TV news and note the poor grammar, misspellings, and plain ignorance.

road to nowhere ...

Without getting too specific (still "in" and undercover), I got my grad degree fairly early after college. Although my father and grandfather were elders, it was not an issue since I lived about a half hour from the campus (a relatively good State Univ) and just commuted. I even temporary pioneered often while an undergrad to keep the heat off everyone.

Anyway, my wife got her grad degree about 20 years later, in her mid 40's. She did the "every other weekend" thing on site for a year and a half and studied the rest of the time on her own.

I was shocked by some classes in which group work (peer review) was involved in which the writing by many of the students wasn't, in my opinion, even at a high school level. Not just misspellings, but I mean major grammar issues; not knowing when to use "there and their," "accept and except," comparing two things and using "this verses that" instead of using the proper word versus. Come on now, we are not talking about verses in a song! Then the screwing up of the proper verb forms and ... well ... let's just say I was totally shocked. She had four others in her group; one was very good, one was OK, and the other two were not in any way graduate material, at least in the Organizational Behavior course she was taking.

They had to do a final paper reviewing the work of another group. My wife asked me to read it and give my own opinion to her. I started to read it after they all compiled their information together (sort of a bummer to spend my time reading 20 pages of crap). My wife asked me to review it and make the notations in Word for further review by others in her group.

After about four pages, I handed it back to her and said, "Just send it back to the group the way it is. If one of my professors received this from me, I would be fortunate to even pass. I would prefer to just rewrite the whole thing instead of making a million edits." (In full disclosure, my wife is Columbian and went to college there and English is her second language, so I do cut her some slack at times on grammar.)

Anyway, since she is a lot smarter than I am (the little Latina had about a 98.5 score in the class with only the group project left to affect her score). I told her don't worry about it since she was basically going to get an "A" even if the professor marked the project down a lot. In the end, she got her "A" in the course.

Back to the point. I was shocked and appalled by how people at the graduate school level can write so poorly. It is really sad. I am not talking about some degree mills where you send money and receive a degree in the mail. I am talking about a well-respected State University. What are they teaching people in school these days?????

Rub a Dub

My Name is of No Consequence

I got my associate's degree a few years after I graduated from high school. It certainly worked out for me. I feel that if it wasn't for the "bad press" that college has gotten from J-Dubs, I would have gotten a bachelor's degree or higher.

Simon

Apart from the hard sciences, most further education is just a pyramid scheme perpetuated by unions. It's ridiculously expensive for what it is and for anything that is remotely 'modern' tends to be way behind the times.

People fawn over "teaching" as a profession but let's be honest, 80% of teachers and completely crap and have little real clue on their subject - they just recite the textbooks. They can be replaced with a few YouTube videos for a tiny fraction of the cost. The majority of teachers are just overpaid day-care monitors and librarians - checking books in and out and handing out papers.

Education has been taken over by the looney left to be indoctrination centres churning out socialist wannabes who can't even balance a bank account or understand APR.

Like I said, there are certain disciplines where I want people to have learned the science - I want to drive over bridges that people have calculated forces on. Beyond that, it quickly degrades into useless and it's a shame - given the money put into education systems and the time people spend going through them, you'd hope they would have more skills when they leave.

But then who-ever thought that a tax-payer funded, government-run monopoly would give great outcomes and value for money?

LongHairGal

RUB A DUB:

I agree with you about how many college graduates in the US write so poorly. I know somebody who teaches and I am appalled at what I have seen from this person.

I have some college but did not graduate. But, I can’t totally blame the Witness religion for this. I can only blame my lack of ambition. But, I did okay and am retired. I read a lot.

I do have respect for higher education but feel that in the US the cost is very high and getting worse and too many graduate with student debt and are underemployed.

iwantoutnow

I am so career limited because I did not get a degree. I can't get hired for what I should be at this age for my line of work.

And I have to admit - rightfully so.

Not having a degree, also meant that I was not able to climb the ladder in my profession the way it should be.

I always relied on "someone knowing me", or a contact, or really just going it alone.

I went to county college, but got so much pressure to leave, I never finished the first semester.

I wish I did.

tiki

Rubadub makes good points. I worked with a woman in the process of getting her MBA....in her class were a couple individuals for whom english was a second language. Unfortunately she was assigned a group endeavor with one of these. The group was significantly thwarted by having to backtrack so much and spend so much time explaining and revising. It was quite frustrating. I am all for education and intellectual development, but in these situations I do believe the language in which the course is taught should be mastered first.

RubaDub

tApart from the hard sciences, most further education is just a pyramid scheme perpetuated by unions. It's ridiculously expensive for what it is and for anything that is remotely 'modern' tends to be way behind the times.

Simon ...

With all of your knowledge and insight, I can't believe what you are writing here, that further education is "a pyramid scheme" ?????

I think most people would agree with me that the ultimate goal most have in getting "educated" is to get a good job. Again, I said most, there are always exceptions.

Well, to even be considered for that "good job," there is a path that most middle and large companies use to find new employees ..... it is called recruiting on campus. Even some small companies do it.

Near graduation time, many companies come and interview students. They want the best and the brightest. If you have never worked a day in your life but have the "papers" to show your accomplishments, you can often start at a salary greater than what your parents may earn.

Is that a pyramid scheme? I think it is just the way the game is played, no different than Monopoly or Chess.

For most other graduates, the degree is still an important piece of paper to get started or even later in a career. For example, after 10 years, Simon and Rub a Dub have extremely similar work records and accomplishments. We both see a management opportunity at company ABC that pays much more than what we both are currently earning. We both apply for the job.

Put yourself into the shoes of the Human Resource Manager at company ABC. He/she is putting their butt on the line hiring someone at this high salary. The HR manager reports directly to the CEO of the company. Simon does not have an advanced degree but Rub a Dub has a masters degree in IT from a good university. All other things are equal. Which one do you hire????

From the HR standpoint, if compensation was not the main issue, I would definitely hire Rub a Dub. Even if Rub a Dub fails, I have done my due diligence in accessing his qualifications. On the other hand, I may reason that Simon is worth considering since I could likely get him for a lot less money. If Simon works out well, the company saves money and I look really good. However, if Simon doesn't work out, I have a lot of explaining to do as to why I hired him.

Am I not telling the truth? Are there any HR people here? Comments?

Rub a Dub

road to nowhere

That is the scheme part. Someone with no work record but papers is a big gamble. No experience in applying knowledge. The other side of recruiting on campus is stealing people from other companies .

Doubting Bro

I chose to listen to the WTS when I was young and did not go to college right out of school. I was fairly lucky to get a position with a company that gave me chance. I took advantage of that opportunity and was able to establish a career. I ended up going to school part time in my 30s (this was after obtaining a few professional designations that were enough to allow me to continue moving up in my career) and finished up close to 40. Having that degree was critical in allowing me to continue to progress in my career. So, in that sense, it was worth it. I learned some valuable things and was happy to have gone through the process.

I've decided against a masters because in running a cost benefit analysis, it's not worth it. I'm better off investing in my children's educational pursuits.

Although it was almost 10 years ago, I don't recall any professors expressing any real leanings politically. I took a ton of business courses and the only political commentary was relating to taxes and governmental regulations. In most of those cases, my professors were more conservative than liberal. I could imagine that certain degree programs would lend themselves to a more liberal commentary. But, I was there strictly to move my career along and didn't take any of those types of courses. To me, if the course didn't directly tie to my degree or give me a skill set necessary for work, I didn't take it. I have other interests but don't think I need to pay the cost of a college course to learn more about those.

To each his own but I'm happy I obtained a degree and am encouraging my kids to do likewise if they are interested in careers in which one is needed. Or if they have no idea what they want to do, a degree can give them the foundation they need if they apply themselves.

Do You Think “Higher Education “Is All That??

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