If you read the “Left Behind” series, the 144,000 is a literal number of real Jewish men, virgins, who convert in the tribulation, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.
A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.
by Fisherman 162 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Fisherman
who are not in the New Covenant, not entitled to partake of the emblems of Christ's death, not born of the Spirit and bereft of a heavenly hope?
Compare Rev 5:10 with Luke 12:32.
Obviously heaven will be ruling over christians on earth since christ is the only way and the only salvation.
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ozziepost
Fisherman
Are you saved?
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Fisherman
Are you saved?
Ozzie, I think you are asking is what I believe is the standard for “salvation.”
Ultimately, God is the final judge.—Luke 13:23-30
The standard is Mark 12:33
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ozziepost
Exactly as I thought you’d respond. You know what, my xtian friends feel sorry for JWs who are never sure of their salvation, no matter how hard they work for the “organisation”, you can never be sure.
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Fisherman
no matter how hard they work for the “organisation”
You didn't read the verses I referenced.
you can never be sure.
That is what faith is all about: The ransom will cover our sins. —But Satan CAN also overreach us as he did with Judas so at least some effort is required.
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Vanderhoven7
Those who base their salvation on their own righteousness and good works including organizational involvement, can never have assurace of salvation. That's the way God planned it so they would hopefully repent of their self righteousness and trust alone in Christ for the salvation he procured. Until then they sadly make God a liar.
They read I John 5 this way
10He that believeth on the Son of God hath not the witness in himself, i.e. the Spirit of Christ indwelling11 And this is the record that God has not given us eternal life.12He that hath the Son hath not life yet.13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have not eternal life, until you survive Armageddon and work faithfully to attain righteousness for 1000 years. -
Fisherman
Van,
One or 2 verses don’t invalidate the rest of the Bible.
While it is clear that salvation extrinsically cannot be earned or bought, the Bible also says that not everyone will be saved and that effort and obedience is still required— but even with all that work, salvation is still a gift that no person merits.
An example of vision to describe an object is the six blind men and the elephant each focusing on only one aspect of the subject. Another example is looking only at one side of a coin while a coin is 3 dimensional. One needs to to view subjects not only in perspective but to see top, bottom and sides to really define and understand a subject and not focus on one or two scriptures and totally not look at and factor in the rest of the Bible.
Respectfully, F.
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Vanderhoven7
Fisherman,
One or 2 verses don’t invalidate the rest of the Bible.
The problem with Jehovah's Witnesses is that they do not believe the Bible. Oh, they say they believe the Bible but hold the teachings of men higher than God's word and in the process of establishing their own righteousness, freely ignore it's life-giving truth.
Acts 13:39 KJV — And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Romans 5:1 KJV — Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV — And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 5:9 KJV — Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Colossians 1:13 KJV — Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Romans 3:24 KJV — Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 1:14 KJV — In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 2:13 KJV — And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV — For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Ephesians 2:8 KJV — For by grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2 Timothy 1:9 KJV — Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Titus 3:5 KJV — Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Romans 3:21-26 21 But now God has shown us His righteousness; the law and the prophets tell us about it...God's righteousness comes to all who believe, just by their believing in Jesus Christ. There is no distinction. All have sinned and are without God's glory. They become righteous by a gift of His love, by the ransom Christ Jesus paid to free them. God set Him up publicly to pour out His blood before God to take away sin through faith, to show His righteousness...Now He wanted to show His righteousness, to be righteous Himself and make righteous anyone who believes in Jesus. (Beck)
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
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waton
Both Fisherman and wt writers contradict the scriptures, - the Jesus story.
After all, about the end times generation He said in effect, that this generation will pass away after all has occurred.
Fisherman says : no jesus, they will not pass away.
wt writers say: no jesus, they (the anointed) will pass away before all has occurred, -----not as you said until (after) all has -(including the GT, judgement, Armageddon)- has occurred
Fisherman's contradicting new light is that the OS are anointed. wt take note! stock up on crackers and wine.