Correction: When I made my prior post I was in a rush since I had to soon start getting ready to go to work. Where I said "As a result, just because a book in the Bible in the Bible is wisdom literature, that mean it is atheistic" I meant instead to say "As a result, just because a book in the Bible is wisdom literature, that does not mean it is atheistic."
What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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punkofnice
The question pre-supposes people are conscious after death.
Supposing they aren't. Supposing there is nothing after you die?
I have yet to meet someone that did live on either as a spirit or in any form.
What an amusing thought, though.
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peacefulpete
We haven't mentioned the widely held Jewish belief in reincarnation. The great Jewish thinker Philo of Alexandria (contemporary of Paul) discussed these concepts as if they are not in genuine tension. Immortal soul, death of the soul, resurrection, reincarnation were eloquently woven into a single philosophy. Mind you it makes little sense, but then we find in Paul a similar confusion.
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peacefulpete
Philo when commenting of the Jacob's Ladder story:
Somn. 1.138–139 For so far is air from being alone of all things untenanted, that like a city it has a goodly population, its citizens being imperishable and immortal souls equal in number to the stars. Of these souls some, those that are closest to the earth and lovers of the body (φιλοσώματοι), are descending to be fast bound in mortal bodies, while others are ascending, having again been separated (from the body) according to the numbers and periods determined by nature. Of these last some, longing for the familiar and accustomed ways of mortal life, hurry back again (παλινδρομοῦσιν αὖθις), while others, pronouncing that life great folly, call the body a prison and a tomb but escaping from it as though from a dungeon or a grave are lifted up on light wings to the ether and range the heights for ever. (De somniis 1.138–139)1
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Fisherman
GOD’S TRUTH ON THE MATTER. Research research research
“..spirit goes out, it goes back to God. In that day his thoughts perish”
The way I read the verse is that the life force that animates the person leaves the body and the mortal creature ceases to exist. —That is to say until the creature is resurrected from the dead. But in the meantime the dead know nothing. That is why Job said “all my days of compulsory service I shall wait” and -Lord I know he will rise on the last day-and Jesus was the firstborn to spirit life from the dead. Prior to Jesus the dead were not conscious and needed a resurrection. Same thing after Jesus. The dead still need a resurrection. No point in creating a tree of life if you don’t really die. All creatures are mortal. Only God is Almighty and everlasting. However, God can give a creature immortality. That’s how I read the Bible.
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Seabreeze,
Regarding your list of scriptures to prove conscious life immediately after death; almost all relate to punishment after the resurrection. Consequently, they are irrelevant to the subject of consciousness prior to the resurrection. There is one exception and that is the Lukian account of Lazarus and the Rich Man which happens to be a parody of the Pharisees as is the preceding account of the master congratulating the conniving dishonest steward.
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BoogerMan
Genesis 3:19 - "...you will eat food until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you will return." (NET Bible)
Non-existent before, non-existent after.
Acts 2:34 - "For David did not ascend into heaven.." (was David not good enough, but Lazarus was?)
John 3:13 - "No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven - the Son of Man."
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Disillusioned JW
Correction: In an earlier post I said the following. "Fisherman, though many Christians teach that the book of Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon ...", but I should have said "Biahi, though many Christians teach that the book of Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon ...".
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peacefulpete
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John 3:13.
Does not mean what you think it means
There were also those that held the soul was immortal but unconscious or at least impotent until the resurrection. A fairly cohesive melding of Greek ideas with ancient Canannite. The author of Revelation seems to have held that view.
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Vanderhoven7
I don't see one scripture which indicates that the human soul is innately immortal. The mortal soul puts on immortality only after the resurrection.