My comment, England for the Germans, wasn't flippant, it was sobering. An aggressive nation felt justified in expanding it's empire. It was stopped by an international effort. Americans were split on whether to fully engage in the war. Many felt it wasn't our problem. I for one believe the decision to support our allies was the right one.
England v Ukraine
by BoogerMan 62 Replies latest social current
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LoveUniHateExams
The situation in Ukraine, Crimea, Donbas and south west Russia is quite complex.
Of course, you get useful idiots like peacefulpete who, having spent decades deriding people as racist and Little Englanders for caring about England's national interest, have now discovered how important national identity is.
Well, this complex problem won't be solved by these people. In fact, these people (e.g. Boris Johnson) have actually prolonged the war by giving Ukraine lots of free shit - munitions, tanks, etc.
I once knew a Russian student when I was at Bromley College. One day it was snowing while we walked to class. I made small talk with her, saying she should be used to the weather because she comes from Russia. She replied that she wasn't, because she came from the south. She didn't tell me exactly where she came from. But I was interested in trying to work it out. I looked at maps of Russia in winter, and realised that the further east you go, the colder it gets, even at southern latitudes. The best I could pinpoint where she came from was the furthest west, furthest south in Russia or Ukraine. She likely came from the southernmost tip of Crimea, which was still Ukrainian at the time (this was in 2009-10). And yet she still referred to herself as Russian.
There are plenty of people in Donbas and Crimea who want to be ruled by Moscow. That is just a fact that people like peacefulpete seem not to acknowledge.
This war will likely drag on until both parties get around the negotiating table. It won't be won on the battlefield - only prolonged.
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cofty
Putin wants all of Ukraine and if he gets that the Balkans are next.
The spirit of Neville Chamberlain has risen.
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LoveUniHateExams
@Cofty - I'm not sure it's a good idea to compare today's situation with the Nazis of the 30s and 40s.
For a start, Hitler wasn't threatening to nuke The West.
And, I'm not sure what evidence you or anyone else has re Putin planning to attack other former Soviet states after he's done with Ukraine. Please present evidence.
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cofty
Putin is a Eurasian nationalist - see 'Black Wind, White Snow - The Rise of Russia's New Nationalism' by Charles Clover.
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LoveUniHateExams
@Cofty - unfortunately I don't have that book to hand at the moment.
All I'm asking for is evidence that Putin intends to attack the Balkan states ( Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia) after he's done with Ukraine.
NB - Volodymyr Zalenskiy's ranting doesn't count has evidence, lol.
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cofty
Have a read at the following article by Dr Neil Melvin, Director International Security Studies at the Royal United Services Institute, former senior adviser at the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Energy Charter, the European Union and the United Nations.
Nationalist and Imperial Thinking Define Putin's Vision for Russia..
"Putin has become convinced that his historic role is not just to overcome the end of the Soviet Union, but to undo the Bolshevik nationalities policies that laid the foundations for the contemporary state system of Eurasia."
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LoveUniHateExams
Thanks, Cofty.
Will read the link ...
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LoveUniHateExams
Yeah, interesting essay.
If Putin does decide to invade Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia, then these NATO member states will rightly defend themselves, aided by other NATO countries.
I have already heard about Putin's essay, which the author links to. Putin does indeed argue that Ukrainians, Belorussians and Russians are the same people. Although it's perhaps important to note that he doesn't include ethnic Lithuanians, Latvians or Estonians in his analysis.
I'm not 100% on whether Putin will attack the Balkans. If he does then he can have no qualms when the UK and US get properly involved.
Personally, I feel that if Putin has a next target it will be Moldova. Transnistria is an eastern area in Moldova which is populated by ethnic Russians who are looking to Moscow.
There's one thing I wonder about the West's wonderful relationship with Ukraine and it's this:
What does the West get out of it?
I understand what Ukraine gets out of it - lots of free military hardware costing billions of pounds/dollars.
Does Zalenskyy intend to pay us back at some point?
Let's imagine that in 5 years time, Argentina invades the Falklands. Would Ukraine give us some military hardware and equipment, or help us in some other way?
The West-Ukraine relationship seems to be one-way. Relationships without reciprocity rarely last long.
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markweatherill
BoogerMan19 hours ago
@ markweatherill - according to the BBC, more than 5000 Ukrainians obtained tickets to attend the match.
The BBC article says 1000 tickets were given to Ukrainian refugees and their host families. 4200 tickets were sold to 'Ukraine fans'.
It's a stretch to assume, without knowing, that the latter were 'travelling fans' from Ukraine. Maybe they were, I don't know, but my point, without prejudice and made with kind intent, is that you don't know either.
