England v Ukraine (page 6)

Anony Mous

You say Ukraine has to "stand up against it's aggressor", however, Ukraine has invaded various Russian regions both before and during the current continuation and recently their defense minister said they won't stop "until they get to the Red Square" (the Kremlin). In December they even hit Ryazan and Engels, about 300 miles from the Ukrainian border and there have been terrorist bombings in Moscow by Chechen separatists who have been backed by Ukraine all the way back to the 90s.

If it was just about 'retaining' a region they weren't even properly holding before Russia got involved, why would they keep pushing into Russian cities (which if you look geographically, involves crossing various natural borders)

The conflict is a lot less black and white than what the media tells you. The region has always been a hodgepodge of separatists and both Ukraine and Russia are the big players backed by respectively NATO and China to keep the pot stirring.

Riley

Right wing media plays the same card the watchtower and Tract Society does.

1. Makes you think you are smarter than you are.

2. Promotes a contrarian mentality.

3. Always pushes the lowest common denominator button.

4. Uses extra vague terms to have you upset all the time. Everything is either " woke " or " communism " now.

Seriously , Fuck right off thinking Ukraine deserved this or we somehow provoked Putin. Or we are doing it sell weapons are whatever Fox or Breitbart or Prison Planet is telling you. Fuck right off.

LoveUniHateExams

The Ukrainian war and events surrounding it are quite complex, and worthy of discussion.

Do you have anything of value to add to this discussion, beyond telling people to fuck off?

punkofnice

riley - Right wing media plays the same card the watchtower and Tract Society does.

I think they all do TBH. It all depends which tribe we pick to be in. I don't really follow American news channels, why would I? I reckon the BBC and most UK media is for a certain tribe. Whichever one subscribes to. Although I do think the left and right wing are both as absurd and disgustingly violent as each other. Both extreme and seem a little tunnel visioned. They just want to shock, cause a kerfuffle and rake in the spondoolicks.

Seriously , Fuck right off

Not persuasive argument, Riley. You catch a jasper with honey not vinegar.

Chill my good fellow.

slimboyfat

Ukraine and Russia wanted a peace deal back in April 2022. Boris Johnson, at the behest of the US, travelled to Ukraine to make sure the peace deal didn’t go ahead. Western arms manufacturers and their lobbyists are making an absolute fortune from this war just as their last grift in Afghanistan had come to an end. These are just facts. The are clearly prepared to ride this out to the last Ukrainian. As someone else said on this thread, apparently without any irony, they think it’s “cheap at the price”.

Corney

It would be great if a peace was made then. But it seems a bit far-fetched to state as a matter of fact that Russia was participating in those negotiations genuinely and in good faith, and that the parties were able to come to an agreement, and that Johnson's visit played significant role in the negotiations' failure, etc. The arms industry wouldn't be irreparably harmed by a peace deal since military spending would increase anyway due to threats posed by Russia (which not a single reasonable person would deny now), China and others.

Corney

AM, you are spreading nonsense.

Ukraine's military actions perfectly fit within the scope of self-defence, and yes, this includes attacking legitimate military targets inside of Russia.

No, Ukraine didn't invade Russian regions before the February 24, and some isolated incidents, mostly false flag operations, don't change this fact. Ukraine didn't support Chechen separatists.

No, it's not just about retaining certain regions that were partly lost because of Russia's involvement. Ukraine is protecting its very existence and independence.

I guess the conflict is less black and white, and Ukraine and the West were often wrong, but your claims still don't make any sense. And just because you heard something about the Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Republic, you aren't less ignorant on this situation.

peacefulpete

Israel's Bennett Walks Back Claim the West 'Blocked' Ukraine-Russia Peace Deal (businessinsider.com)

Anony Mous

@Corney: everything I said is easily researched and anyone with a bit of knowledge of the region knows.

Even Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas_(2014–2022)

Between 2004 and 2017, the US sent Chechnya’s separatists a ton of aid, both financially and militarily, a lot of that found its way laundered through Ukraine. Not only that, but Ukrainian military members fought in the Chechen war (https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/russian-officials-consider-una-unso-fighters-in-2-3882.html) And Chechens are currently fighting in Ukraine.

Again, do your own research, whatever you’re being spooned today is bullshit. This is equivalent to the Middle East, Arab and Muslims have been at each other’s throats for centuries, finding a good party is ludicrous.

Corney

The US supported the Chechens? Between 2004 and 2017? Laundered through Ukraine, which is hundreds miles away from Chechnya? Sounds like your GPT-3 is hallucinating again.

Russian official claimed some Ukrainians (that had nothing to do with Ukraine military) fought in Chechnya. So what? Some Russians (I mean, by both nationality and ethnicity) joined the separatists too. Said Buryatsky, for example.

I'm sorry, but your knowledge of the region is not just ("a bit of") minimal, it's negative.

England v Ukraine

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