John 1:1 - A "Sacred Secret" Revealed

by AGuest 145 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Satanus

  Well, with folks like you who have NO clue trying to explain what you cannot, because it cannot BE explained in physical terms... who's to wonder? YOU… and people LIKE you... cannot explain to them what they may TRULY be experiencing… because YOU... and people LIKE you… don’t have a clue.

  Actually, i have had some experience w this, some in churches, some outside. So, i really do know, though i don't spread it around much, because that's how i am. I can, and did explain it. Kind of takes the mystery/specialness out of it, doesn't it?

  Like religion. L ike them, YOU think your explanation is sound... just as they say their false teachings are justified... so that rather than building a man's faith UP... you all lead such ones to doubt themselves… and thus doubt God and Christ, and the LIVING existence of one or both... which CAN be quite traumatic, for some. And that is TRULY h ateful of you and those like you…

  There you go, judging me again. Why would explaining how things work have an affect on what one knows? Faith only comes in for things one doesn't know for sure. Shamanism has been studied quite well. It's understood fairly well by those who have investigated it, yet, it still works. In closing, may i remind you of something written in the bible ...

  1Corinthians 2 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: NIV

  I have no fear to examine anything, and in examining am able to understand, to an extent, contrary to your claims. As the amplified puts it ...

  1 Corinthians 2 15 But the spiritual man tries all things [he [ 1 ] examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him].AMP

  Your mistake is in thinking that you are spiritual and i am not, or i'm on the dark side. You think that the spiritual experiences of others, if they don't involve your gods, are from evil ones. Oh well.

  SS
• 

  AGuest

  Actually, i have had some experience w this, some in churches, some outside.

  Well, dear Saint... and peace to you... I must say that if you ha d "some experience"... in churches... then you and I are not talking about the same thing. Just so's we're on the same "page", dear one. 2 Corinthians 6:17, 18

  So, i really do know, though i don't spread it around much, because that's how i am.

  First, again, I don't think you DO know... at least, not what I am speaking of... and second, if you DID... you would "spread it around." Much. You would have no choice. For the spirit IN you... would cry out. But then, you know that, don't 'cha? Ezekiel 3:17-21; Luke 19:40; Amos 6:14, 15

  I can, and did explain it. Kind of takes the mystery/specialness out of it, doesn't it?

  Well, you did attempt to explain SOMETHING, perhaps even discernment of inspired utterances... but not that which is gifted from my Lord... or hearing FROM my Lord. Which, by the way has no "mystery" or specialness to be removed from it. It simply is... what it is.

  There you go, judging me again.

  Judging you?! Because I speak the truth I am judging you? Are you sure we're on the same page? 'Cause I think you've got this "truth" backward. Quite. For it wasn't me who denounced YOU. But... let's continue...

  Why would explaining how things work have an affect on what one knows?

  Why would you wish me to assume that something designed by earthling man could overthrow something granted by God, through Christ? Again, I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I think YOU are talking about "episodes" where people BELIEVE they've received some "divine"... thing... from GOD... because of what their minds and bodies go through. However, such a manifestation doesn't prove a thing. People possessed with demons experience the same things. It is the SPIRIT that experiences the things of God. And things that effect the body and the mind... have no affect... on the spirit. Are we still on the same page?

  Faith only comes in for things one doesn't know for sure.

  Again, you err. For faith... is the ASSURED (which means one knows... "for sure")... expectation of the things hoped for... the EVIDENT demonstration of realities... though not BEHELD. Those who possess faith, as a fruit of God's spirit and a GIFT from Him, by means of Christ, are absolutely sure. Absolutely sure. That is why they give all of the glory... to HIM. They know it is not theirs... nor could it be. To take such glory... or to fail to give it to the One from whom one received it... would be... well, plagerism... among other things. And plain 'ol theft.

  Shamanism has been studied quite well. It's understood fairly well by those who have investigated it, yet, it still works.

  I don't doubt the truth of what you state here. Question is... "works"... for what... and for whom... and by MEANS of whom? For me, if it isn't God and Christ, I don't really care. I'm not required to... nor do I wish to. MY truth.

  In closing, may i remind you of something written in the bible ... 1Corinthians 2 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: NIV

  Indeed. And I do not judge you. I do, however, offer to help YOU understand... more accurately... what it is apparent that you do not, among which includes the TRUTH... that it was YOU... who judged ME.

  I have no fear to examine anything, and in examining am able to understand, to an extent, contrary to your claims.

  I claim to "receive" what I share from my Lord. YOU claim that it can be stopped... by medication. Am I on YOUR page? And then, I explained WHAT you believe... and WHY. To YOU.

  As the amplified puts it ... 1 Corinthians 2 15 But the spiritual man tries all things [he [ 1 ] examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him].AMP

  Indeed. But I think you've got the application backwards. I spoke by means of spirit that I received from my Lord. Apparently, YOU... disputed that. By that, then, YOU... judged me... as well as the SOURCE of what I spoke, also claiming that YOU know how to stop it. Apparently, YOU did NOT agree that it was from God by means of Christ, through holy spirit... and thus subject to GOD'S removal of such spirit... but removable by the simple means of chemicals. Go back and re-read the discussion, dear Saint.

  Your mistake is in thinking that you are spiritual and i am not, or i'm on the dark side.

  Wrong page: YOUR mistake is thinking that what I spoke was mine... of my own initiative... so that it can be removed... by myself... or earthling man. It is you who err.

  You think that the spiritual experiences of others, if they don't involve your gods, are from evil ones.

  Oh, no, no, no, no, no... you NEVER heard that come out of my mouth... or saw if from my keyboard. I do NOT judge the house servant(s) of others. That is not up to me by ANY stretch of the imagination. You've ENTIRELY changed the subject of this discussion, Saint. And I would exhort you to go back and RE-READ it: what I posted... and how YOU responded. I openly stated by WHAT means I spoke... WHOSE spirit. YOU... responded by saying that you USED to stick up for me... as if I spoke falsely. Then you claimed that it could be stopped by chemical means, as if I did not originate from whom it did. WHO judged WHO, dear Saint. WHO insinuated a charge of falsehood? WHO denied the spirit... and WHO ridiculed WHO?

  Oh well.

  Indeed. Sometimes some of you crack me UP, how you jump from one side to another and then accuse me of it. But you know what they say: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance... baffle 'em with bullsh*t. And that's exactly what you're attempting to do here. But I'm not on that page. I don't even read that book. But, as always, peace to you! A slave of Christ, SJ
• 

  gumby

  You think that the spiritual experiences of others, if they don't involve your gods, are from evil ones.

  Shelby replies...... Oh, no, no, no, no, no... you NEVER heard that come out of my mouth... or saw if from my keyboard. I do NOT judge the house servant(s) of others. That is not up to me by ANY stretch of the imagination. Shelby, why do you speak as though you are not in agreement with the above statement from SS? Christ himself taught that he is the ONLY way or door one can go through to gain eternal life. ...........do you believe this? If you do.........then you SHOULD judge others as did the bible writers themselves when they spoke much towards others who would deny Christ as the savior. Jesus on one hand says that we are to believe in him and no other.....yet Jesus says not to judge others. How can Jesus say not to judge someone.... yet make a positive statement about if you don't believe in him you will die in your sins.....then expect someone to NOT judge a person who doesn't believe in him? Gumby
• 

  AGuest

  The operative word used by Saint was "evil", dear Gumby. The only ones I know that my Lord condemned as "evil" were the scribes, Pharisees... and the Adversary.

  Christ himself taught that he is the ONLY way or door one can go through to gain eternal life. ...........do you believe this?

  I absolutely do. However, I did not know that we were talking about going through to obtaining eternal life. I THOUGHT we were talking about "spiritual experiences." Were I to condemn someone for such an experience... how then could I help them understand the TRUE Way? You don't lead someone to Christ by condemning them, dear Gumby. For all things can be forgiven them, save blasphemy against the spirit. Even blasphemy against the Son... can be forgiven.

  Thus, I... do not judge the house servant of another. That... authority... has not been given me. I leave to the One to whom it has.

  Peace to you.

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SJ
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  gumby

  I don't get as ticked at you Shelby, as I do the book you get this from.You can blasphame the son who is life, but you better not blasphame the spirit. I thought the two went hand in hand?

  BTW....I was kidding about the rum and peyote as I'm sure you know.

  Basically as you have been told before.....people get upset that you seem to get told things by christ your lord yet all the others here do not make that claim. They feel like the lord is partial in that he tells you things and not others. Why only you? Is there scriptural proof that he does this sort of thing? Refrences? If so....please explain WHY only some.......or rather with this forum.....only you are special in this way.

  Don't get mad at me shelbmeister, or I'll call for backup

  Gumby..........( I just know we've been through this before )
• 

  noko

  This is for those who are reading and searching for the truth. The truth really comes from the Holy Spirit, Christ also said I am the truth and the light. What AGuest has said about the topic of this thread is indeed true. Please ask and pray for the Holy Spirit and humble yourself with a contrite heart. For me it is a calming presense that is as real as if someone was right in front of me. Have I've had visions? Yes in the past not so much now, once you have a vision you definitely know that it is a vision, you are fully consious of who you are just as much as you are aware of reading this now but yet in a spiritual realm where communication is more symbolic and but very clear in meaning, as in a universal language. It is an experience that you will never forget. Not all those with Holy Spirit will have visions, that is only one of the gifts of the spirit.

  Personnaly I am amazed at the confusion over John 1:1! Jah is the eternal God with no biginning or end, Christ is a Mighty God with a beginning, the first born of all creation. For us Christ is indeed God since all things that we know came through him. From Jah's eye's (so to speak) there are no other God's, none have created him, I AM (is actually good phrase describing Jah I think). From Christ Eyes he has a God and Father and was BORN! from him who preceeded before him (you know, I think it is rather silly to be a Son but yet being as old as my Father, rather foolish thinking but believe as you will). Even Moses was designated as God to Pharaoh, Satan the God of this World and the list could go on and on about God being more of a title of divinity.

  Let the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth and stop listening or paying attention to any bickering. Peace to all my brothers and sisters.
• 

  gumby

  Noko,

  I would like to hear about your vision or dream in detail. Can you share it?

  Gumby
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  noko

  It was really ment for me Gumby, an answer to prayer, way beyond what I've ever expected. Brieftly it dealt with living water a symbol of Holy Spirit, Spirit of Everlasting Life from the Eternal Farther. I was told to cleanse the temple with it in which those who where not Christ's would flee, in fact a number of people in this vision sneered but would run away from my task while others where purified with joy. The joy of touching this living water, which is beyond adequate description (words would never do this justice) was like a multitude of diamonds blue and spackling with pure white light abounding with living energy. In short Gumby, I was baptized.
• 

  gumby

  In short Gumby, I was baptized.

  Glad to hear it for ya. I never was no matter how much I asked. I to this day could not tell you one ioda of a difference when I learned christ was the way when I became a christian after exiting the dubs.....none. To me a loving god doesn't pick one out of a 100 of his kids to give "visions" to and tell things to. Personally, I don't think anyone has ever had one in reality......they just think they have.

  Some people can get hypnotised and others cannot. Usually those that can will also be the type who fit into the seeing visions catagory.

  Gumby
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  Undecided

  Old JFR had one thing right,"Religion is a snare and a racket."

  If God was dealing with mankind through a religion,(Christain) at least it should agree on the teachings of God. It doesn't at all. If Christ came to teach us about God he sure slipped up somewhere, most of those who claim to accept him differ on almost every doctrine. Why should I accept one person's story above any others?

  Why don't we just face the truth, no one knows what God is or where he is. All this hearing voices and being led by spirit is a bunch of crap. If he doesn't talk to me personally I will never beleive he is interested in me, and if I don't hear some very provable information I will just committ my self to an insane asylum if I hear voices.

  Ken P.