by run dont walk 47 Replies latest jw friends
I know this is not a poplular viewpoint, but i honestly felt happier when i did not have to work and could just be a "good wife
I totally respect your view, Weds, but how about the myriad women who are required to work, do all the "man" things, and be a submissive wife as well?
Rosemarie
Growing up as a JW there certainly was not any genuine self-respect. Today though is a different story.
I'm glad I would not fit into any "society" that would demean not only woman, but children. The old addage of "children should be seen and not heard" is not a healthy attitude either. I would agree that too much of what seems acceptable in our culture is Bible based - and outdated for our times.
Perhaps it's not just about self-respect, but respect. Period. Having self-respect reflects in my speech and behavior towards others, too. Of course it's a puzzle to me how I see many woman allowing themselves to be treated as second rate in this day and age. And this from non-christian woman as well.
As for woman playing football and/or other sports designed for men...who cares. Why aren't we taking pride in the abilities we have other than this great show of physical strength? What are we competing with men for in the first place...too declare some sort of "I'm as good as you?"
Just tossing thoughts out at the moment...while I want a strong man in my life, I also reconize my own inner strength. And that is something only I could develope and nourish; a very foreign idea to JWs.
Having developed a sense of self-pride allowed me to look around at how our men can suffer greatly, too. Generally I've gotten along well with men because they needed female input as I needed male input. (no pun intended)and it wasn't about submission or, being less than...it was about how we can compliment the other. Where one is weaker perhaps the other is stronger. Being united in purpose can accomplish more than buying into an old woren out mantra about "submission."
Even for those stay-at-home women, the skills that are required to maintain a home, when put down on a resume' are pretty damn impressive. In closing out this long winded missive I'll go about my day of volunteer work remembering how we each contribute to the whole. I love men! I love woman, too. I love children, the elderly, my cats, my home, my grandchildren...ah shucks. I'm just in one of those "ain't it great to be alive" days.
I also love the fact that because I'm female the men will be driving the forklift, moving tons of donated items around, lifting and heaving the physically heavy stuff while this woman takes care of the phone, the crowd, the cleaning up after the men...and making sure they are taken care of. Not because I think "it's my job" but because it makes me feel good about me...and the men appreciate my efforts.
I love ya'll, too.
granny
Hi Asleif, I enjoyed your post on this. Thanks.
There is a wide range of size, strength and body structure among 'normal' males and females.
Good point!
Some women are bigger and stronger than some men
Yep, but very few!
Using the NFL as an example does not take this into account.
Okay, since you didn’t like that example lets try boxing. How many pro women boxers out there do you think would make it against a pro boxer like Lenox Lewis or Mike Tyson? Or even a smaller one like the size of sugar ray (only about 140-150 pnds)? I would like to see someone like Laila Ali Or Joe Frazier’s daughter try it but I know that it would be a “slaughter fest”. The point is simple. Men are usually physically stronger than women. You can argue around the point until your blue in the face, but that’s a fact.
Merc'
Okay, since you didn’t like that example lets try boxing. How many pro women boxers out there do you think would make it against a pro boxer like Lenox Lewis or Mike Tyson?My point is still the same. If you pulled 500 men off the street, what are the chances that even one of them would last 5 minutes with Tyson or Lewis? You can't use professional sports as an example to generalize that men are stronger than women.
Men are usually physically stronger than women. You can argue around the point until your blue in the face, but that’s a fact.Men and women have different physical strengths. It's widely bandied about that men have greater upper body strength, women have greater lower body strength. I believe it's accepted that women have greater stamina.
Pull 100 'average' men at random and have them stay home 24/7 with a 2 year old and a house to keep. How long before they give up. exhausted? If childcare and housework were viewed as 'important' in this society, that could be put forth as evidence that women were stronger. It just depends on what kind of 'strength' you think is 'important' - and that depends on cultural bias.
-If you pulled 500 men off the street, what are the chances that even one of them would last 5 minutes with Tyson or Lewis?
Rather evasive! We are not comparing men to men we are comparing men to women. In other words we are comparing men and women pro athletes against each other. That's fair and if you say it's not then you prove my point.
-You can't use professional sports as an example to generalize that men are stronger than women.
Why not It’s just as good a gauge as any. In fact I think it’s the best gauge as you get to see examples of athleticism in top-notch form across both genders. I certainly wouldn't won't to use as example the fact that it's usually men who are guilty of spousal abuse by virtue of superior strength, and not the other way around. Sports give's one an opportunity to make a fair assessment of both sex's abilities. I have noticed that women no matter what sport move differently than men. In sports like boxing, football and weightlifting men would excel because men are stronger than women point blank.
-It just depends on what kind of 'strength' you think is 'important':
See Below!
It's widely bandied about that men have greater upper body strength
Right!!!!! -Good for things like boxing, weightlifting, football etc.
Thank's
Merc
Pull 100 'average' men at random and have them stay home 24/7 with a 2 year old and a house to keep. How long before they give up. exhausted? If childcare and housework were viewed as 'important' in this society, that could be put forth as evidence that women were stronger. It just depends on what kind of 'strength' you think is 'important' - and that depends on cultural bias.
When my daughter was born, Nina had a broken foot, so it was my job to change and take care of the baby for the first few weeks. For the first 3 or 4 years it was my job to bathe and put them to bed. For the past 6 years I've worked at night in order to take care of them during the day. For 5 of those years I was getting 4 hours of sleep a night (home at 2:00 a.m., up at 7:00 a.m. when Nina left for work). I've always been the one who has done the housework, whilst Nina does the cooking. We both have our strengths and we work together as a team so we can get more done.
I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back, but it is always dangerous to make generalized statements about any race, gender or group of people. Not all men are lazy good for nothing slobs. Some of us really care about family. Some of us view childcare and housework as important.
I'm uncomfortable with statements like this. Men are not better than women. Conversely women are not better than men. We are different, not superior. Personally, I happen to enjoy the differences.
I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back, but it is always dangerous to make generalized statements about any race, gender or group of people. Not all men are lazy good for nothing slobs. Some of us really care about family. Some of us view childcare and housework as important.
Ah, but I didn't say that all men were lazy good for nothing slobs who don't think housework is 'important' I don't think they are. My dad and my uncle, who have been my male role models, are excellent examples of such things, especially for men of their generation. I, more than most women, I think, really appreciate a guy who does his share (mostly because my husband doesn't).
The comment about housework and childcare was to give an example of a more or less 'traditional' women's job that's very stressful and takes strength, energy and endurance. The type of physical skills that women in general have, according to some studies, in greater quantity than men (compared to, say, upper body strength, which in general, men have more of). In our society, we are much more impressed by skill and strength and athletic ability on the football field and basketball court than we are by the skill and strength and athletic ability it takes to care for toddlers and run a house. We pay them more. We make a fuss over them. That's all I was saying.
Lots of men do help at home (and I give them the applause they deserve), but still the vast majority of women come home from a full day's work and do 90%+ of the housework and childcare. This has been consistant in study after study. Honestly, would you agree that a man who comes home from work and does all the cooking or all the housework or is responsible for the majority of childcare would get a lot of recognition and kudos from most people? Wouldn't people compliment him and talk about what a great guy he was? But if a woman works full time and does all that, do people's eyes get wide when she tells them "Yes, I work, and then I do all the cooking and cleaning and put the kid to bed." Do people make a 'big deal' of a woman who comes home from work and cooks and cleans, the way they do a man? My personal pet peeve is guys who, when they take care of their own kids, call it "babysitting." I finally asked one guy who said this, "When your wife has the kids, do you call it babysitting???" He looked at me kind of blankly.
I has always bothered me. That is why I am no longer a jw and I am single. I won't be walked on by anyone. I see how my mom and sister are still treated and it makes me sick. It makes me so crazy that I have to be careful how often I talk to my mom. My mom just came back last weekend from the district convention, and showed my the new great teacher book. I had to put it away. It was making me sick at my stomach. It says that the women followers of Jesus, must have cooked his clothes and fixed his meals for him. (pg. 75-76) In truth these women had money and supported Jesus. He could not have done what he did without them.
Pam
