Borgfree --- That's a good point . Politicians always talk out the side of their mouths .They will promise anything to get elected but when time to get it done find all sorts of reasons why it can't .It would probly take a majority rule for any of the libertarian ideas to get thru congress.I just can't see that happening at this time .
Americans Only--RSVP
by patio34 37 Replies latest jw friends
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waiting
I've read few - know even fewer - people who agree totally with their government, unless they're zealots.
I don't agree fully with anyone on this thread, and I've never fully agreed - or believed - any politician I've ever read/heard. They are politicians. Beware.
lol - Wish I had applied same warning to religions.
Yeru & Thi - thanks for the counter-balance views. Something to think about.
Compared to where our parents, grandparents, etc., were? I prefer to be here.
waiting
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czarofmischief
Yeru,
I actually vote Republican, but I lean towards the Libertarian viewpoint.
I really view government as a necessary evil, to be as small and restricted as possible.
My mentioning of income taxes was a jest - I realize that the modern world requires a professional army with high-tech equipment. So defense is permissible, and is in fact mentioned in the preamble to the constitution. However, roads are historically paid for by state and local taxes, which I have no problems with. My feelings are that communities are eroded by reliance on federal monies, which are too big and complicated in origin to properly audit and evaluate. When towns and local organizations actually have to debate about how to accomplish something, participation in politics is more immediate, more "real" for lack of a better term. Solves voter apathy. You might not care if Bush or Gore is in the White House, but you definitely will be at the town meeting to discuss your local property taxes...
For instance, health care - could you imagine if a town or city decided to purchase health insurance for all of its citizens, regardless of their income or work status? Not only could they negotiate a good rate as one of the biggest spenders, they would be providing a benefit for their inhabitants, one that would attract people to live there.
Its frustrating for me to live in Pittsburgh, one of the world's most advanced medical centers, and not be able to get my broken ankle tended to...
If I didn't have to put one third of my income into the federal box, where it disappears and is never seen again, I could contribute to a city-wide fund for health insurance. A fund which even the local papers could audit and understand and question and debate and suggest...
Local communities, when all they have to do is apply for a federal grant, don't bother debating the issues, and the lack of debate erodes community interest and the sense of common purpose...
CZAR
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heathen
Czar -- I disagree with your view that income tax is a necessity. I think way too many people are over worked and underpaid and to have to fork over 1 day out of every week in income tax is pointless . To top it off these people on the poverty level are having to get welfare just to survive.I really think that if the founders of this nation saw what was going on there would be big trouble . I just look at the tax on gass and have to shake my head in disgust something like half of it is federal tax . The government does not even show signs of accountability as far as allocating the monies properly . They give billions of dollars in aid to other countries while americans have to sit by and account for every dime of income or the IRS will throw you in jail . Without income tax there would be no IRS to interfere in peoples financial affairs .
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Michael3000
The so-called "Patriot" Act begins us on our slippery slope toward Orwell's vision in "1984" - Patriot Act II make that slope even more slippery.
I'm building a rocket ship to the moon.
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heathen
Well guess what michael They have had an echelon system in operation for years in order to wire tap and eves drop on foriegn governments and also americans . The paranioa is getting to the point of obsession . I think we have been on the big brother slide for some time now .
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onacruse
Yeru, I don't ordinarily get involved with political topics, mostly because I'm not particularly well-informed about political matters and react more from gut than knowledge. Which is why, when you asked twice here "How have your civil rights been violated," I set back in my chair and pondered the import of a wonderful new little euphemism that I just heard yesterday, re: the arrest and detention of suspected terrorists; it's now termed "held until cleared" (no longer, that good old American judicial process guarantee of "innocent until proven guilty").
Here in Portland there is an ongoing high-profile case involving an Intel employee (who I knew) was arrested several weeks ago and is being held without charges; a pattern being repeated 1000s of times across this country.
That's pretty damn close to violating my civil liberties.
"He who wounds you wounds me."
Craig
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heathen
Ona--- That's a good point . Yeru did ask how has the patriot act violated civil liberties and here you go and state the obvious . This is turning into the mcarthy hearings or something around here. It's even being compared to the treatment of the japanese americans during ww2 . I can tell that Yeru is a government man and probly plans a political future for himself as he sticks by the policies GW and is republican so you better toe the line ehhhhh .