DID JESUS LOSE HIS FAITH?

by plmkrzy 47 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  AGuest

  Chrisianity condems all to die who do not believe.......

  Yes, dear Gumby... and may you have peace... "christianity" does (what exactly IS "christianity" pray tell?). But true christians - those who are "chosen people" by means of a true anointing with holy spirit and not just a simple "belief" because it "feels good" and "you won't die if you do"... do NOT condemn... for they hear... and obey... the commandment NOT to judge... but to "go releasing"... by means of the spirit granted them. They get the sense of that... and live it.

  As for my Lord losing his faith, dear Plum... and peace to you, as well... here is the problem with what is written that is NOT inspired (I truly hope UnDf'd pays attention to this!):

  By his words, "Eli, Eli lama sabach thani," my Lord was not indicating that his that his faith waned. What occurred was, unfortunately, the GREEK langauge did not contain any words that ACCURATELY translated what my Lord said IN ARAMAIC! The word "forsaken" was the ONLY word the translators could come up with in THAT language to describe the Aramaic word "sabathani". How do we KNOW this? Because... they LEFT the Aramaic words IN! They did not simply translate, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?", but rather, KEPT the Aramaic words and then stated, "which MEANS"... or "that IS." For example, when stating the word, "Golgotha" and then giving an explanation - this was because there was NO GREEK WORD... for "Golgotha."

  But such word was incorrect; a mistransliteration. For my Father NEVER forsook my Lord... nor did my Lord ever think, believe or fear that He had! The TRUTH of this matter is that at that very time, my Father did not LEAVE my Lord... but only REMOVED HIS SPIRIT from upon and within my Lord, so that such... COULD NO LONGER BE FELT! The TRUE words, then, translated from Aramaic, were "My God, my God, why have you LEFT me." And such words did NOT indicate an abandonment, as the Greek translation would leave us to believe - leave us to believe that my Lord thought himself abandoned. It indicated... a REMOVAL... not of God... but of God's spirit! And my Lord wanted to know WHY... my Father's SPIRIT... had been REMOVED!

  Why? Because just as in the case of Job, the Adversary made the SAME challenge with regard to my Lord: "skin in behalf of skin and EVERYTHING that a man HAS... he will GIVE... in behalf... of HIS soul." In other words, rather than DIE... my Lord would save his SKIN... by giving UP... that which he had... his sheep! And you can understand that, yes? I mean, true, we, most of us, would die for those we LOVE... but my Lord was dying not only for his FRIENDS... but for his ENEMIES as well! Which one of us... when faced with losing our lives... would go through with it for the sake of an enemy? Satan, then, said that in order to save his OWN life... my Lord would give up ALL that he had.

  In the case of my Lord, then, this very challenge had to be answered... BY my Lord... not God. Had my Father continued to "put a hedge"... His spirit... around him (my Lord)... then nothing would have been proven. And so the hedge, holy spirit, the spirit of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... was removed. This left my Lord completely on his own... to CHOOSE... what he would do. Some believe that he had NO CHOICE... based on my Father's promise and prophecy. He indeed had a CHOICE... but the prophecy and promises were made... because my Father KNEW my Lord... the TYPE of person he was (he was the image of God, so that he was LIKE God)... and so knowing what HE (God) would have done... knew what His SON would do.

  My Father never left, forsook... or abandoned... my Lord... as the Greek mistransliteration would suggest. My Lord never thought himself left, abandoned... forsaken. He knew only that the SPIRIT of my Father had been removed... and asked why? Why did he ask it? Because... under ALL other circumstances, excluding Job... the removal of God's spirit... denotes His DISPLEASURE with one. My Lord, then, could not understand what he had DONE... to cause displeasure. However, he was mistaken... his weakened flesh... on the brink of death... rendering him such.

  For those who would disagree, I must ask you: did God NOT remove His spirit from around the man Job, so as to grant access to the Adversary? And by means of such removal... was Job in fact abandoned... forsaken?

  And BTW, while my Lord indeed spent only 3-1/2 years while IN THE FLESH convincing people that he was the Savior and Son of God... his time in the spirit was MUCH longer than that... MUCH longer that, say, even 20 years. For it was he that led the assembly of Israel out of Egypt, so that he (Moses) "esteemed the reproach OF THE CHRIST... as riches greater than the treasures of Egypt; for he looked intently at toward the payment of the reward. By FAITH, he left Egypt, but not fearing the anger of the King, for he continued STEADFAST as seeing the One who is INVISIBLE." Thus, while in the wilderness of Sinai, Israel AND the vast mixed company... ALIKE... ate the manna... and drank... from the Rock-Mass... that IS the Christ.

  Hebrews 11:26, 27 and 1 Corinthians 10:4Again, I bid you peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  gumby

  So Shelbmeister old bud,

  When a slave of the lord begins to die who ALSO has the lords spirit on them.......such as you, do these too feel a removal of god's spirit when they are about to die. I have never heard a slave of christ who is dying saying..." dear god....why are you leaving me"?

  If you can't agree with me Shelbmeister.....then it's time you and I kiss and make up and just be plain old buddies. Whadya say?

  Gumby
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  KGB

  No Jesus didnt loose his faith but Gumby did....
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  gumby

  Nah,

  Gumby didn't lose it.......he simply found there was nothing to put it into.

  Gumby
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  AGuest

  My Father didn't remove His spirit because my Lord was about to die, dear Gumby (and peace to you!). He removed it... to remove the "hedge" that Satan says He puts around us... which hedge, according to Satan... is what keeps us loyal. Were the hedge to be removed, according to Satan, we would ALL curse God and die. Just as with Job, however, my Father knew that even without His protection, His Son would fulfill his course. That's all that took place, dear Gumby, and all I meant.

  And I see no reason to kiss and make up, dear Gumb. Are we "at odds?"

  Peace!

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SJ
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  Introspection

  * I've edited this message after recognizing that you may not believe in the traditional Christian world view, so the language has been altered slightly to reflect this.

  Plmkrzy ,

  Anyway, that isn’t exactly the direction I wanted to go with my question. I am well aware that there are many members here who do not believe in Christ and some who don’t even believe there was a guy named Jesus.

  Actually your reading of my message is not my meaning, and although in a sense the above is true that is not where I am coming from either. Maybe JamesT's message will make more sense, he is making the same point.

  At the risk of belaboring the point, I will rephrase part of what I've already said. You say you are aware of those who do not believe (actually, I'm sure you mean those who believe otherwise - there's a big difference) in the above. My question to you, which is not personal but since the topic happens to be under discussion here, is are you aware that faith is atleast dependent on these beliefs, based on what you've posted? In other words, do you think faith is a matter of having beliefs? (obviously I'm using the word in a different sense) Putting aside the question of separation for a moment, if you think God is real in any sense then that reality is more important than your beliefs about it isn't it? My thing is I hope people will endeavor to have a faith that is not just a matter of thoughts in their own heads, which is all belief is isn't it? If your spirituality is belief based, then how is that anything but faith in your own mind?

  Well, those are just some questions which you might want to consider, but if you only want something that conforms to a traditional Christian belief system then I'm sorry. If you are atleast interested in what the bible says, I would suggest that you recognize the assumptions associated with the traditional interpretations of the scriptures, which is only under a larger general view of the world.
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  Introspection

  This probably won't make any difference, but one more point of clarification.. By saying all that about things being relative, I do not mean that phenomena is not real, just not ultimately or absolutely real - but real as long as it exists. Humans would fall in this category of a passing phenomena. Maybe I should just leave it to the reader to do the math from here, or not.
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  onacruse

  Hey plum, remember that thread many months ago, early on after I just started posting here, and I gave you like 40 different translations of a scripture (I forget which one )? LOL...ahhh, the memories.

  Katie and I would love to talk with ya...p/m me, eh?

  Craig (of the "loves plummy" class)
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Here's what I believe about this:

  First let's look at the Scriptures:

  Matthew 27:45: Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour, darkness came upon all the land.
  Matthew 27:46: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

  Mark 15:33: Now when the sixth hour had come, darkness came upon the whole land until the ninth hour.
  Mark 15:34: And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lima sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

  Did Jesus lose His faith? No way!

  Why did Jesus say "My God, My God why have You forsaken Me?"

  This is what I believe:

  At that moment, The Son was separated from The Father for the first time ever. Why was this done? Because The Father had to place all of our sins onto Jesus Christ, and then The Father placed all of our punishment, all of the pain and suffering that we deserve for our sins, onto Jesus Christ.

  Jesus Christ was (1) separated from The Father for the first time ever, and (2) had to suffer the pain and suffering and torture from the punishment that we deserve. Jesus had to experience the torture of being separated from God that each one of us deserves, in order for our penalties to be paid for by Jesus.

  Jesus, on the Cross, experienced the pain that each and every one of us would have received if we go to Hell.

  Jesus did this 100% willingly -- Jesus was God in the Flesh.

  1 Peter 2:24: who Himself bore our sins in His Body on the tree, in order that having died to sins, we might live unto righteousness--by whose stripes you were healed.

  Isaiah 53:4: Surely He has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
  Isaiah 53:5: But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was on Him; and with His stripes we ourselves are healed.
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  Hamas

  LOL

  Jesus was God in the flesh

  Thats a good one !

  Brilliant ! Keep em coming man.

  But seriously, I doubt that Jesus was God in the flesh. In fact, my opinion is that he was not. Don't get me wrong; I believe the Bible and Jesus and God etc, but there is no way, I am sorry, that Jesus was God in the flesh.

  Jesus was God's prophet, sent to show the world light. ( Not new light )