DID JESUS LOSE HIS FAITH?

by plmkrzy 47 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    JamesT

    What if there IS but the One Consciousness: I Am, from which all phenomena arises and flows back to?

    Then, would not the belief in fragmented and individual identities (the tiny "me"), be but an illusion? not true? a lie?

    I’m dyslexic so anything remotely close to quantum physics ties my brain in a not. Grasping “energy” and “oneness” is easy, but what are thoughts made of? If individual identities = an illusion then how could we possibly have this conversation and it not be an illusion? How does one measure a thought?

    SJ

    ... here is the problem with what is written that is NOT inspired

    GREEK langauge did not contain any words that ACCURATELY translated what my Lord said IN ARAMAIC! The word "forsaken" was the ONLY word the translators could come up with in THAT language to describe the Aramaic word "sabathani".

    He knew only that the SPIRIT of my Father had been removed... and asked why? Why did he ask it? Because... under ALL other circumstances, excluding Job... the removal of God's spirit... denotes His DISPLEASURE with one. My Lord, then, could not understand what he had DONE...

    That makes a lot of sense. It seems so simple after reading it from that view point. So his words were not “what have you done to me” but rather “what have I done to offend you”

    Introspection

    are you aware that faith is atleast dependent on these beliefs , based on what you've posted? In other words, do you think faith is a matter of having beliefs?

    that faith is atleast dependent on these beliefs You believe that? Just kidding

    If your spirituality is belief based, then how is that anything but faith in your own mind?

    I understand what you are saying.

    I believe I may not know the answer to that.

    I can easily say yes, because I “believe” I know nothing other then what I have been “conditioned” to know. But that is even debatable. Unless I could somehow experience my existence with a variety of backgrounds and compare notes, all I can say is “I believe”

    One person may see the heart as nothing more then a mussel and one may see the heart as something more unique like a fingerprint that you can’t see.

    I “believe” we are all separated by what’s in our hearts. I can’t prove that, but I believe that.

    onacruse

    Hey plum, remember that thread many months ago, early on after I just started posting here, and I gave you like 40 different translations of a scripture (I forget which one )? LOL...ahhh, the memories.

    LOL! I most certainly do! The problem with my mind is it never wants to behave itself. I bet I spent at least 75 hours sifting through what you linked me to. I got off on the right track but it was a short track because I quickly came across other words that called out for my attention and took me in so many directions I forgot what I originally went there for.

    I hate that. I’ve heard there is a pill for that. LOL!

    I would love to talk to both of you… that would rock my world.

    UnDisfellowshipped

    Why was this done? Because The Father had to place all of our sins onto Jesus Christ, and then The Father placed all of our punishment, all of the pain and suffering that we deserve for our sins, onto Jesus Christ.

    The reason I have a hard time following that is because we never stopped being punished and never stopped suffering.

    Jesus had to experience the torture of being separated from God that each one of us deserves, in order for our penalties to be paid for by Jesus.

    Ok here I have to disagree because I don’t believe we deserve to be “tortured”. I believe that there had to be an exchange of faith. Adams faith, or lack of, was voided and replaced with Jesus. In order for it to be a valid exchange it had to be on a human level, not a “protected by holy spirit” level.

    What was confusing to me was the idea that Jesus felt he had been abandoned and it was not obvious to him that things had to happen that way. He must have known ahead of time (I would think) that he would have to stand on his own faith alone. Then that thought leads me into other directions such as, Jesus still had a great advantage because he is the Son of God. Did Jesus remember his existence before his life on earth? Or did Jesus believe in his existence?

    Jesus, on the Cross, experienced the pain that each and every one of us would have received

    I use to believe that, except for the going to hell part. I don’t believe in a “hell” where bad people go. I do believe in some form of life after death.

    If I come back as a cow I will be thoroughly pissed off!

    My replies were made post by post so some things I would go back and change. I just left it as is.

    Thanks everybody for all your great posts.

  • Undecided
    Undecided
    I didn't say that it did. I said it made him "unique" because all the others cannot even come close in comparison

    What about Islam and his prophet Muhammad, don't they have a mass following like Jesus? Does the number of followers prove anything as far as to the truthfullness of whether the prophet was from God or not? What do you think of Buddha and his followers. Was he a prophet of God?

    Just a few questions from my mind.

    Ken P.

  • Hamas
    Hamas

    Well who knows what is truth, Ken

    My personal opinion is that Jesus cannot be God in Flesh. All evidence points away from this assumption. The idea of the trinity is laughable at least. I think Jesus was God's prophet, not God.....

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    undecided

    Does the number of followers prove anything as far as to the truthfullness of whether the prophet was from God or not?

    I already answered that responding to gumby on page 1

    None of this has to do with who has the most followers. If I am correct, Buddhism is quickly growing large in numbers of followers around the world and who knows, it might even out number all others in the future. But none of that has anything to do with what Jesus said on the night of his death and what it actually meant or revealed. How ever you want to look at it. And if you even believe it happened.

  • noko
    noko

    Psalm 22 is a reflection or window into Jesus Death and shows great faith that Jesus had to the end.

    "19 But you , O Jehovah, O do not keep far off. O you my strength, do make haste to my assistance. 20 Do deliver from the sword my soul, My only one from the very paw of the dog; 21 Save me from the mouth of the lion and from the horns of wild bulls you must answer [and save] me. 22 I will declare your name to my brothers; In the middle of the congregation I shall praise you."

    Jesus maintained his faith, it is kinda hard to think, believe and say you will praise Jehovah name to the congregation if you didn't have faith that through death Jehovah would rescue him. Spiritual Jesus was perfect, fleshly Jesus was not.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    The words were put in the hero's mouth at the moment of death to appear to fullfill "prophecy" by Mark( and copied by Matt) as he saw the Savior as a victom. John (I use the names traditionally attatched to the works) has Jesus say" It is finished" then die. His hero died deliberately and defiantly, a later theological developement.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Plum... may you have peace... and I praise JAH that you can get the sense of what took place. There are those who believe, and as a result of such belief, have stated here that my Lord did not receive our sins and transgressions until that point. For YOUR information, as well as those others with ears to hear, I wish to take you to the prophesy stated in Isaiah 52 and 53, as well as Psalm 51:2. Isaiah first, and I will try to be brief:

    Speaking for God about my Lord while "in spirit"... or inspired... the prophet says, as Isaiah 52:14:

    "Look! My servant will act with insight. He will be in high station and will certainly be elevated and exalted very much. To that extent that many have STARED at him... IN AMAZEMENT... so MUCH was the disfigurement as respects his appearance... more than that of ANY other man... and as respects his stately form (please remember these two words!) more than that of the sons of mankind."

    WHY was he stared at in amazement, why was the disfigurement of his appearance and his "stately form" so MUCH... more than ANY other man? Isaiah 53 tells us. Starting at verse 2, the prophet says:

    "NO stately form does he have, nor any SPLENDOR... and... when we (Israel) shall SEE him, there is NOT the appearance so that we should DESIRE him."

    The prophet said this because to ISRAEL... a king should be tall, stately... and handsome. I give you Saul...

    "And he happened to have a son whose name was Saul, young and handsome, and there was NO man of the sons of Israel that was handsomer than he..."

    and David, who although quite handsome, was not even as handsome as his brothers, whom Samuel thought to anoint first:

    "And it came about that, as they came in and he caught sight of Eliab, he at once said, 'Surely his anointed one is before JAH."

    Samuel said this, as a result of what he saw with his eyes... an apparently good-looking man (remember Saul?). But Eliab was not JAH's choice. Neither was Abinidab... Sham... or the other five sons of Jesse. Yet, even though apparently less pleasing to the eye than these, when David came the scriptures describe HIM as:

    "... ruddy, a young man with beautiful eyes and handsome in appearance."

    So, you see, Israel had a HISTORY of handsome kings. A review of the David's predecessor's will reveal that. Even Solomon had over 700 wives/concubines... and although only 8 years old, the people followed Josiah.

    So that when my LORD arrived... OMIGOD! THIS is the One who is to be king of Israel... this man who Isaiah says was SO disfigured in appearance? No WAY! The king of Israel would be TALL... STRAPPING (weren't most of them warriors?)... HANDSOME... and certainly HEALTHY! Yet, here was this tiny, frail, not so attractive... and sick man... claiming to be their king!

    How do we know he was unhealthy? Because Isaiah said he would be:

    "He was despised and was AVOIDED by men, a man MEANT for pains and ACQUAINTED with sickness. And there was as if the concealing of one's face from us. He was DESPISED... and we... held him as of NO account."

    Why was this? Why did they despise and avoid my Lord? Because... he had LEPROSY as well as many other illnesses! That is why he hid his face. That is why he said to the Pharisees that they no doubt wanted to say to HIM... "Physician, heal... THYSELF." When, how and WHY did my Lord have leprosy? Because...

    whenever he healed someone, he DID so... BY TAKING THEIR ILLNESS... THEIR SINS... INTO HIS OWN FLESH! And he healed... lepers. Thus, he was DESPISED... as lepers were despised... and AVOIDED... as lepers were avoided... because, as Isaiah goes on to say:

    "Truly OUR sicknesses were what he himself carried and as for OUR pains, HE bore them. But... WE... ourselves... accounted him as PLAGUED, stricken by God... AFFLICTED."

    And Isaiah seals proof of this, when he says, at 53:10:

    "But JAH took DELIGHT in crushing him; HE made him sick."

    My point in telling you all of this is this:

    My Lord did NOTHING to warrant the removal of my Father's spirit. Which is why he asked as he did with such spirit was removed. He was "without sin"... in that HE committed no sin... and he knew it. True, he had to die... but loose God's SPIRIT? The question needed to be asked!

    All of this occurred because God... sent him in the likeness of sinFUL flesh... flesh that could hold sin and death IN it... an EARTHEN vessel... so that IN such vessel... his flesh... he could carry OUR sins: OUR sickness and OUR death. So that everytime he healed someone... power... went OUT of him... and INTO that one... to heal THEM. It did not renew... but weakened his flesh, afflicted it. Thus HE... gave HIS life... on BEHALF... of such ones. And ultimately... he delivered his entire life, his entire spirit... on behalf of the entire world.

    I hope this helps you understand what TRULY occurred. It is true that the Bible can be confusing. That is why if one TRULY wants to know the truth, the BEST source would BE the Truth... the Son of God, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. It is written about him anyway, so why not simply ask HIM... and let HIM... as the Fine Shepherd, LEAD you... into all truth?

    I bid you peace.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Noko... may the undeserved kindness and mercy of our God and Father, the Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH... of Armies... and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord and yours, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you... to time indefinite. My you be rewarded for your faith.

    Your servant, sister and fellow slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • ClassAvenger
    ClassAvenger

    Most of the time I sleep in church accidentally, I sleep really late at night, so whatever I say don't take it against me. But, in my opinion, Jesus still felt like a man, he felt pain and fear of dying. Not dying itself, but the pain that he had to go through, and therefore he said what he said. We have to remember that it was a really painful torture to be on the cross. It's like most Christians, we don't fear death because we believe that we will go to heaven, just like those suicide bombers in Israel think they will go to heaven and have I dont know how many virgins and stuff, but we still fear death itself, not what is after it, but what we feel while we die.

  • gumby
    gumby
    JAH... of Armies

    Armies?

    What does a god of love have to do with armies?

    God of Israel?.... I thought he wasn't partial?

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