True Bible Doctrines part 2

by hooberus 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

hooberus

The Personhood of the Holy Spirit
Personal pronouns show that He is a person

"O thou that art named the house of Jacob, is the spirit of the LORD straitened? are these his doings? do not my words do good to him that walketh uprightly?" Micah 2:7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16:7-15
He can be blasphemed
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." Matthew 12:31-32

He can be lied to
"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
He calls
2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. Acts 13:2
He speaks
11: And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles. Acts 21:11
He has a mind
"And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:27
He has a will
11: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1 Corinthians 12:11
He can be vexed and greived
"But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them." Isaiah 63:10
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30
He is God
3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4: Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. Acts 5:3-4
He is Lord
"Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." 2 Cirinthians 3:16-17
He with the Father sends the Son
"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." Isaiah 48:16
He has a name that we are baptized in, the same as the Father and the Son
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" Matthew 28:19
He is one God with the Father and the Son
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." 2 Corinthians 13:14
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
ClassAvenger

Don't rely on 1 John 5:7, I've heard it's not included in many bibles because of some reason, just the King James has it. Not that I am against the post, I am actually for it, just that some people might try to prove you wrong with that text... I think...
DJ

Hi hooberus,
I agree about 1John 5:7...it is too controversial and stumbles people. The bible holds it own without it anyway. Have you seen the thread about the NWT errors/lies/mistranslations...whatever you want to call them..... The wt actually has the words "active force" instead of Holy Spirit in Genesis 1:2. They are reprehensible in their audacity to try to deceive as usual. dj
hooberus

I hope to post some info on 1 John 5:7 being genuine.
DJ

Hooberus,
On that thread I mentioned there are 2 points of view on there in DETAIL..omg!!
Hamas
Hooberus, I admire your faith.
However, I feel you have a false perception of the Holy spirit.
When Jesus spoke of asking his father to send out this spirit at John chapter 14, could not that be percieved as being a person ? Lets take a look :
"And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you into the age (to come)." John 14:16
We often read the above verse 14:16 ending; "for ever". The fact of the matter is; "into the age" is the literal translation of the original Greek phrase; 'eis ton aiona'. In the next verse 14:17, John also records, this "another Paraclete" is the "Spirit of Truth"
The concept that the Paraclete (comforter, advocate) is the "Holy Spirit" is unequivocally negated by the following verse:
"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Paraclete shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." John 16:7
If this 'comfortor' really is the Holy Spirit, how can that be if the "Holy Spirit" was already present during and before the ministry of Jesus. The Holy Spirit was in existence since the day of the Creation and was hovering upon the surface of the earth (Gen. 1:2). It was also present with the prophets of the Old Testament. The "Holy Spirit" was present "like a dove" at River Jordan when Christ was being Baptized. (Mt. 3:16). Since there is and was only ONE "Holy Spirit", Jesus would be totally mistaken in saying that the HOLY SPIRIT would NOT come not UNLESS he departs. Did not Jesus see the dove that alighted upon him? OR, Jesus did NOT know that the "dove" was the Holy Spirit? Jesus was a RIGHTEOUS Paraclete. When he said; Another Paraclete will come only after my departure, he meant that this Paraclete is not yet here, but will be born after I depart.
I wonder.
DJ

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/53827/1.ashx here you go hooberus...this thread is Class Avenger's, it has a great amt. of info about 1John 5:7.
Hamas, You're just kidding right?
hooberus

hamas are you trying to teach the Islamic doctrine that the helper is Muhammad?
http://answering-islam.org/Silas/comforter.htm
JOHN 14:15-17: "If you love me you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you."
JOHN 14:25, 26: "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
JOHN 15:26: "When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me."
JOHN 16:7,8: "But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment...."
JOHN 16:13-15: "But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it know to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you."
John 14:16 — And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth.
The Comforter will be with these disciples forever. Jesus promised the Comforter would be with these disciples forever. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he wasn't born until over 500 years later - following the deaths of these disciples. He was born around 570 and died around 632 AD.
John 14:17 — But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.
The Comforter lives with the disciples already now and will later be 'in' them. The Holy Spirit came to the disciples and indwelt them. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because first he wasn't around at the time when Jesus was speaking to his disciples nor second could he ever be in any of the disciples. The Greek word is 'en', and it means 'right inside'. Jesus is saying that the Comforter will be 'right inside' of the disciples.
John 14:26 — The Comforter is specifically described as the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is not a man. Muhammad could not be the Comforter because he was never the Holy Spirit.
John 14:26 — The Comforter will be sent in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit represented the Lord on earth. No Muslim believes that Muhammad was sent by God in Jesus name. Muhammad did not come in Jesus' name, as the apostle of Jesus, rather he came in his own name with his own questionable “revelations”.
John 14:26 — But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
The Comforter will teach these disciples and remind them of what Christ said to them. As the early Christians grew the Holy Spirit taught them. Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.
John 15:26 — When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.
The Comforter would be sent to these disciples. These disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Muhammad was never sent to these disciples.
John 16:13 — But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth.
The Comforter will guide these disciples into all truth. These disciples (and others) grew in the knowledge of God through the revelations from the Holy Spirit. Muhammad never guided these disciples into any truth.
John 16:13 — He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
The Comforter will speak to these disciples. These disciples grew to know the leading of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they knew His voice. Muhammad never spoke to these disciples.
John 16:14 — He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
The Comforter will take from Jesus and make it known to the disciples. Muhammad never knew Jesus and never took from Jesus and made it known to anyone.
The context of these passages shows clearly that Muhammad could not be the Comforter. Jesus was not speaking of another person to come at a later date. Jesus’ precious final words to His disciples were meant for them. Jesus was not merely preaching a sermon to be analyzed and intellectually talked about through the centuries, rather, He was giving His the disciples with Him there His final commands, love, and encouragement.
Hamas

I am just saying that this could be a possibility. I don't think any of us really know the truth, and I don't think any of us can really say that we have the truth. Which is why we must keep our minds open to different ideas at all times.
In answer to the points you have raised:
John 14:16
In answer to this text, as I mentioned earlier We often read the above verse ending; "for ever". The fact of the matter is; "into the age" is the literal translation of the original Greek phrase; 'eis ton aiona'. It doesnt translate as 'forever'.
John 14:26 — But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you
Muhammad is not the Comforter because he never knew the disciples and he didn't teach these disciples, and Muhammad never reminded the disciples of what Christ said.

Negative; the information you possess is false. A look at the facts reveals :
The Qur'an speaks about the teachings of Jesus and even quotes him. The Qur'an attests the miracles performed by Jesus the Messiah. It also mentions one astonishing miracle performed by Jesus that the Gospel writers have not recorded (V:110). The Qur'an acknowledges that these miracles and signs were performed with the leave of Allah, by His righteous Servant and Messiah Jesus.
A closer examination reveals :
"But when he, the Spirit of Truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative, but whatever he hears, he will speak..." Jn. 16:13
The Qur'an is a compilation of the "Divine Revelations" that were received by Prophet Muhammad, over a period of 23 years, through the arch angel Gabriel. The Prophet used to recite whatever he used to hear. His companions used to write down whatever he recited. The Qur'an does not contain the writings or teachings of Prophet Muhammad, as often mentioned by some misinformed authors
"He shall glorify me." John 16:14
The Qur'an glorifies the birth of Jesus through Virgin Mary. It confirms; Jesus was a Messiah, a Messenger of God, the Spirit from God, the Word of God and the Righteous Prophet.
"He shall take mine and shall disclose it to you." John.
Prophet Muhammad did declare himself a Messenger/Prophet of God like Abraham, Moses and Jesus.
"He will teach you all things." John 14:26
The Qur'an teaches a way of life. It guides mankind, how to live a pious life socially, politically and spiritually.
Do not be misinformed by so called loving Christians spreading falsehoods and lies concerning Islam in an attempt to win conversions. Many Christians websites seem to like taking shots at Islam, but most present an inaccurate version of facts.
hooberus

hamas, John 14:26 says point blank that the comforter is the Holy Spirit
JOHN 14:25, 26: "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

True Bible Doctrines part 2

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