by StinkyPantz 153 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
To answer SP's original question: YES emphatically.
I don't have any fear of god, because I don't believe it - him/her. After I processed that, everything just fell into place nicely.
Being free of god, free of guilt, free of worry.....created a much better life for Rayzorblade, indeed.
OK, folks...carry on.
Anyway, how do you know certain prophecies haven't been fulfilled? Many of them are not spelled out. Does anybody honestly understand Revelation? Maybe it hasn't happened yet. Or maybe its symbolic meaning is going on today, and we just don't know it yet.
Are you kidding? First you claim that Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. Then, as an example, you say that we can't understand the prophecies and that they might be in the process of being fulfilled this very moment, only we don't know it. I don't think I need to waste time pointing out how ridiculous that is.
But if propheces haven't been fulfilled, the only thing I can come up with is when text is translated from one language to the next, it's impossible to achieve 100% accuracy. Besides, for a long time, the Catholics dominated the Bible, wouldn't let the common person have a copy, and twisted it to serve their own needs. For all we know, the versions today could be screwed because of what they did. Speaking of which, there are no less than about umpteen jillion versions and translations of the Bible. Which one is right? How can anyone possibly know?
This is an argument against the prophetic legitimacy of the Bible, not for it.
Then there are superstitions like not writing God's name. And it's not just a JW thing; I heard about this when I took Modern English Grammar. Besides, if I remember right, a reference to God's name was made in Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. I don't think George Lucas is a JW.
What does this have to do with anything? You said that the Bible's prophecies have always come true, that its claims are reliable, and that it is the oldest book. You have failed to defend (and in some cases, even address) any of these claims.
Dedalus
Hi Greven!
Greven: I think you misunderstood my post a bit...
Myx: oooooooooh (!)
Greven:
You, on the other hand, seem to have solid reasons for your faith and believe in G-d. You have done extensive research into this matter! I am very interested in your reasons for faith and belief, please enlighten us so we can have a debate.
Myx: I'd love to talk with you. And likewise I'm very interested in your reasons for *dis* belief, it would be much easier if I had some idea as to YOUR reasons why you do not believe in G-d first. ? Also, have some idea on your view of Jesus Christ?
I wouldn't know where to start otherwise
Myx: I've not been on here long and you've probably posted this before, but how long have you been free from the Watch Tower?
Greven: Anyway I gave both sides a good hearing for more then two years before reaching my conclusions. I must admit however that I hardly read anything about easter religions.
Myx: 'easter' religions? Are you really from the Netherlands then? cos I don't understand what you mean... Have conclusions, but don't disregard further proof on account of them.
Greven: After tossing the Judeo/Christian concept of God I moved to the existance of God(s) in general.
Myx: Why's that? So I take it you disbelieve the Bible to be the 'word of G-d naturally, could you tell me why, or just post wotever links that would explain your reasons so you don't have to write it all out?
Myx: *applauds* very good! That's right cool, good for you! Where you going to school?
Greven: 'Mere Christianity' C.S. Lewis? Never heard of it. I will get it. Thanx for the suggestion.
Myx: bitte. Never heard of it, eh? Of course you've heard of the author C.S. Lewis right?? (Chronicles of Narnia?) It will explain in depth one of the major reasons for the belief in G-d
I will have a go at 'Small gods'
Greven: Thanks for your nice replies! It's nice conversing with you. Welcome to the site btw.
Myx: Thank you for your lovely reply to, thanks!
Myx: Sorry for the curt *and late* reply, I'm rather busy at the moment, and again very sleepy (4:45 por la manana!!) Hope to hear from you soon
Cheers
Myxomatsis
*frankly Mr.Shankly since you asked
you are a flatulent pain in the a**
I do not mean to be so rude
but I must speak frankly Mr.Shankly*
-The Smith's
Hi Myx!
Myx: I'd love to talk with you. And likewise I'm very interested in your reasons for *dis* belief, it would be much easier if I had some idea as to YOUR reasons why you do not believe in G-d first. ? Also, have some idea on your view of Jesus Christ? I wouldn't know where to start otherwise
Wooofff! My reasons for disbelief? Remember the burden of proof is not on me, however to make it a little more easy I will give my main reasons.
First of all let me state that I am an agnostic atheist, ie I do not confidently claim "God does not exist". Rather I claim that there is no evidence that warrants such a belief or conclusion. In short there is no reason why I should believe there is a God, hence I assume there isn't one. (default position is unbelief). So there could be a God, yet no-one has shown me evidence of it sofar that cannot be explained otherwise. Can I prove God does not exist? No. But I don't have to. The burden of proof lies with the one asserting a special claim; God seems to be a very special creature to me.
As to my thoughts on JC. I do not deny anybody living around that period with that name. I do not deny he didn't live. However, I think the stories tolled about him in the bible are not true (especially the miracles and him being the son of God or even God in the flesh). My guess is that around that period there was a rabbi that tried to change the hard laws of judaism, attempting to make it more humane by looking at the reason behind laws instead of to the letter of it. The currunt people in power didn't like this and had him killed for it. Later this evolved in to a myth, adding things already attributed to other figures like Gods to it, resulting in the biblical story of Jesus.
Myx: I've not been on here long and you've probably posted this before, but how long have you been free from the Watch Tower?
I am not totally free yet. I am inactive since about a year, but had doubts and did research before becoming inactive. I am still inactive because I am slowly working on my parents and some other relatives, working from inside out. This is making progress, yet, getting myself DF-ed or DA-ed will basically torpedo this progress.
Myx: 'easter' religions? Are you really from the Netherlands then? cos I don't understand what you mean... Have conclusions, but don't disregard further proof on account of them.
Oh yes, eastern religions sounds a bit weird, I mean by that Hinduism, Toaism etc, say the religions of the Orient. And indeed I am from the Netherlands, I live not far from the coast near The Hague. I draw conclusions on the available evidence, new evidence, ofcourse, warrants a reassesment. Disregarding further proof would make it dogma, not science. don't worry I have a curious, and open mind!
Greven: After tossing the Judeo/Christian concept of God I moved to the existance of God(s) in general.
Myx: Why's that? So I take it you disbelieve the Bible to be the 'word of G-d naturally, could you tell me why, or just post wotever links that would explain your reasons so you don't have to write it all out?
The reason why is more or less simple: I started to read the bible, from Genesis to Revelation. This uncovered inconsistencies, scientific boo-boo's, injustice, bloodshed, genocide, and a lot of other fine human qualities.(a lot of these can be found here. If there really exists a God that inspired such a work I would be frightened by it. I would not serve such a God voluntary.
Greven: Oh almost forgot to mention: I am an undergraduate student biology (graduate to master this year if everthing turns out ok...)
Myx: *applauds* very good! That's right cool, good for you! Where you going to school?
University of Leiden (you might know this as a 'sister' university of Oxford)
Greven: 'Mere Christianity' C.S. Lewis? Never heard of it. I will get it. Thanx for the suggestion.
Myx: bitte. Never heard of it, eh? Of course you've heard of the author C.S. Lewis right?? (Chronicles of Narnia?) It will explain in depth one of the major reasons for the belief in G-d
I will have a go at 'Small gods'
I will have a look!
Hope this helps you somewhat...
Cheers
Greven
