Mormon "Apostates"

by Kenneson 46 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  RevMalk

  I agree that they have alot of the same complaints, but then again, alot of our complaints are frivolous. If it weren't for all of the JW failed Prophecies, we wouldn't have as much to complain about. I would venture to guess that that's why most of us are gone, or at least why we've stayed gone. And then you have the act of shunning, the blood issues, the child molestation issues. Yes, I know that the LDS have their share of Child Molesters, but their policy is by far better than the JW, and no-one ever blamed the Watchtower for having child molesters, they can't help that. What they do with them is the problem. I contacted a law firm that everyone claims is the top law firm handling Mormon law suits pertaining to the Child Abuse Issues within the Church (equivalent to Kim Norris I suppose). They told me that they have had ONE case, and they can't find another that's worth fighting in court because 99% of the time the Church does everything right. That's the Law Firm who is SEARCHING for more cases against the Church.

  Here's their Child Abuse Policy:

  1. Child and Parents come to the Bishop, and a committee is formed
  2. The Church and Parents call Salt Lake City Legal and psychology (?) Depts.
  3. They assist the parents in finding therapy for the child
  4. They set up a meeting with the accused, to inform him that they are contacting the Police. They do give him the chance to turn himself in right then, with their assistance. If he refuses, they call themselves, and he is DF'd. If he denies the charges, he and the Church arrange an investigation with the authorities. The Authorities conduct this investigation, and the Church conducts theirs.

  Other than these major problems in the JW religion, the rest are just our way of 'coping', at least for me, and besides, it's fun to make fun of them, let's face it. If the Watchtower didn't have the major problems stated above, I'd still be a witness, and most likely many of us would be. I've read through exmormon.org, as well as all of the ex-LDS sites I could find, for years now, and I can't find anything in their religion that constitutes their complaints. They've had many more Prophesies in all their years (66 in the 1800's alone), and not one has failed. Some say that a couple have failed, but the proof is very thin. But, to be fair, I never have been a Mormon, so it's easy to say that from the outside. But like I said, I have many many friends that are Mormon, and I have been to the Mormon Church many times, sometimes regularly. As a matter of fact, I would be a Mormon if it weren't for a few problems I have with organized religion. Rev ---------- LambsRoar.org
• 

  Ravyn

  I was baptized Mormon after being out of JWs for about 2 yrs, because my new husband had been baptized as a kid and we were having new marriage troubles and went to them for help. I liked them. They were very open-minded. My first question I asked was "what books can't I read?" Their answer was we don't care what you read. In fact one of my favorite quotes was from their Doctrine and Covennants Book where it say to the effect bring all the books from everywhere and make them sacred by accepting what truth they DO offer! Brigham Young(while not my fave Mormon) said that it was the responsibility of every member to go out into the world and find all the truth and gather it together and bring it back in where it belonged.

  I would still be with the Mormons if they didn't have this Jesus fixation. I liked all their weirdo stuff. The occult connections was the reason why I was attracted in the first place. And they believe in what is elsewhere called 'channeling', 'communion of saints', and 'personal revelation' so that leaves private practice pretty well open. They may be trying to fit in mainstream--a shame to lose their uniqueness for the popular vote!--but their woo-woo New Age roots will show sooner-or-later and that is what I still find to have some 'truth'.

  They know I went back to the Catholic Church after them and that now I am practicing witchcraft. The boys still come over for Kool Aid and forbidden video games on P-Day(personal day--usually Mondays.) In fact they want my husband to write this video game called "Escape from the MTC"(MTC is thier Missionary training Center and it is BRUTAL!) LOL they come up with ideas like finding an exit and then getting chased back by arch angels with flaming swords! We usually exchange gifts at Christmas with the local boys---it is hard for them to be away from family like that when they were so close. I love the missionaries. Good boys. And they are just boys. You find out their stories and it is so far from the JW fundyism crap--I know two missionaries who took a mission to get out of going to jail! LOL(not criminals mind you--just boy stuff and they were given an ultimatum---many times by the sheriff AND the parents.)

  Anyway, be open minded. Go ahead and talk to them if they show up. Don't try to rip their hearts out right away. They do have some fresh ideas if you can get them past the surface, and give them a Kool Aid. They are not JWs and they do not have malicious intent or hidden agendas--not like the JWs. the only hidden agenda the Mormons have is to really love everyone. They don't believe that even unbelievers will be unsaved--just not get as good a reward as those who do believe.

  Ravyn
• 

  RevMalk

  LOL, that reminds me of something that happened with us a few years ago. Some missionaries were over, and I asked them a question, can't remember what it was, but they had this wacky idea that just blew me away. I called an old friend of mine out in Utah, and asked him the same question, and his version wasn't so wacky. Then I told him what the missionaries had said, and his reply:

  "That's one of the reasons I know this is the truth. If it weren't, the young missionaries would have ruined it years ago"

  he was joking of course, but that's what he said as well "they're just kids, but they're learning".

  And they have so much faith, they trust these 'kids' to spread their Gospel.

  I've known some of these kids to go on missions in foreign countries where they don't even know the language. In a matter of a few weeks they're fluent! It's amazing to me, it really is.

  Like Ravyn said. Don't fear them, don't reject them, talk with them, and by all that is good and holy, go easy on them. They're not there to tell you that you're wrong, they refuse to argue doctrine, believe me, I've tried!

  They believe there is good in all Churches (Including the Kingdom Hall), and while they obviously believe they have the 'truth', they don't claim to be God's only people, meaning they believe Catholics are saved, JWs, Baptists, etc. They're here to spread the word of God, and they do it well being the fastest growing religion in the world! Rev ---------- LambsRoar.org
• 

  drwtsn32

  and they do it well being the fastest growing religion in the world!

  I have a hard time imagining they are more effective than JWs in their door-to-door ministry. There are just so many more JWs that knock on doors! I think the LDS church is growing rapidly because they strongly encourage you to have many children. The JWs practically discourage children until the new system.
• 

  RevMalk

  The most recent Missionaries we had coming here, one of them was at the end of his 2 year 'tour of duty'. So I asked him how many he had baptized up to that point (about 1 1/2 years on the mission). His reply was 20, and he was extremely embarrassed by that because it's WAY below average, he said. This area is not real receptive to any religion other than Catholicism, so it's real hard for these guys to get anywhere. It still surprised me though, that he was below average. He was 20 with a brilliant mind, he blew me away because he had so much knowledge (although I know for a fact he baptized more in the last 6 months of his mission). And not just Biblical or religious, he was just a real smart guy. But even more so, the fact that 20 baptisms was a low average on a 2 year term shocked me.

  I don't know of any JWs offhand that have baptized more than a small handful in alot more time than 2 years! Rev ---------- LambsRoar.org
• 

  Double Edge

  But like I said, I have many many friends that are Mormon, and I have been to the Mormon Church many times, sometimes regularly. As a matter of fact, I would be a Mormon if it weren't for a few problems I have with organized religion

  Rev.... that is EXACTLY my situation. Some of their history in the late 1800's is also a little unsettling to me, but I guess if you look at any religion, they all have their dark closets. What I really enjoy about them is their sense of community and their social programs... I've been on their softball teams, been to their beach parties, musicals, etc. , and what was most enjoyable, no one has ever really 'preached' to me..... I've always initiated the discussions.
• 

  Double Edge

  Anyway, be open minded. Go ahead and talk to them if they show up. Don't try to rip their hearts out right away. They do have some fresh ideas if you can get them past the surface, and give them a Kool Aid. They are not JWs and they do not have malicious intent or hidden agendas--not like the JWs. the only hidden agenda the Mormons have is to really love everyone. They don't believe that even unbelievers will be unsaved--just not get as good a reward as those who do believe.

  Ravyn... well said. Your experience with the mormans are similar to mine, and I've been trying to get that point across and dispell all of the 'sinister' overtones ever since I've been on this board.
• 

  RevMalk

  Hey, maybe we should compare notes sometime.

  My wife and I even had a Baptism scheduled once, but we cancelled. We were going to be Baptized in the same place Joseph Smith was, which was very exciting for our Missionary friend. Unfortunately for him, we backed out. He said since he's been a kid he wanted to see someone baptized there, and to actually participate was very exciting for him.

  I promised him that if we ever decide to do that again, we'd fly him up from Salt Lake City. So far I've saved myself the airfare, haha.

  As for the unsettling things from the late 1800's, I'm not sure what things you're speaking of, but I've run across a few things that bugged me as well, and that's why we cancelled. But all in all it's not so much that that holds me back, it's more my fear of religion. I liken it to being hurt in a relationship, and now I'm guarding myself. I fear sometimes that that 'guard' will keep me from finding the truth, if it exists, whether or not it's the LDS Church. Rev ---------- LambsRoar.org
• 

  drwtsn32

  I am surprised that there are ex-JWs here that would almost like to be Mormon. IMO Mormon beliefs are even more "out there" than JW beliefs. The BoM is not backed at all by archaeology, it contradicts the bible in places, and yet according to Mormons it is a "higher source" than the bible.

  Don't get me wrong: Mormons are GREAT people. Very nice, loving, even to non-members (unlike the JWs).

  If you want to be a Mormon for social reasons, great. But their religious views are really whacked and not based on any sort of fact. (Mainstream Christianity isn't either, I guess, but it's not as bad...)

  Just my opinion....
• 

  Ravyn

  ok I was not really going to get into this, but you drew me out.

  I like the Mormon preEarthly history and their eschatology and after-life ideas. I like their Temple rituals. I like their open to spiritual experiences approach too. And I was only a few weeks off from getting married in the Temple when we moved and fell in with a bunch who were not what we were used to. A bad bishop basically. But I wrote a letter to one of the apostles and he wrote me back. Try that with JWs. The one hold up I have with any form of christianity is purely cultural. I am not Jewish. I don't want to be Jewish. And I am not into the American pilgrim and westward-ho experience either. I am Celtic, and I swear if Moroni shows some Brit where the Holy Grail is I will be the first to sign up!

  Now about the early stuff...the biggest thing that bothers me is that Joseph Smith was told that if he finished the Temple in---oh what is that place? I can't think of it right now--- and only IF, they would continue to be the special people blessed with the privilege of Temple baptisms. Joseph Smith did not finish it. It was not even finished before he was killed. They basically lost the privilege of being the special ones. And when Joseph Smith was killed the next leader should have been by rights his son. that was how it was set up to pass the torch. Brigham young took a group and separated from the others in a coup and when they were out in the middle of nowhere he made himself the next leader.

  As far as I am concerned that is the same thing that happened to Russell and Rutherford.

  Joseph Smith never called his people Mormons, that came after Brigham Young came into it. The group that remains loyal to Joseph is still around today and are the legal owners of the Missouri Temple. And according to prophecy they do not do Temple baptisms. So in all technicality, the LDS Church should have died with Smith. I can't see this modern church as being any closer to any kind of complete truth as any other religion right now. But I do think they have something. I am not sure what it is, but it is something. I just wish I could FEEL like I belong there.

  I really loved it when I was with the LDS church in VIneland NJ. But then in NH it was terrible! It was so bad that the older missionary couple who studied with me called on the phone and were worried we had fallen into an 'apostate' group. At the time I thot it was funny. But it was sad. Because we never got that original feeling back, and I miss it.

  Same thing with the Catholic Church I went to after that. It was a little mission and it was great. Now we are back to giant impersonal cliquish museums...

  Ravyn