I don't know Alan.
I know Jehovah is a father.
A parent doesn't have kids just to give them away or to abandon them.
A Real Father acts like a real father.
Do you have kids?
Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly
by slimboyfat 59 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Konagirl
@FreetheMasons -
When it says "they walked with Jehovah during the breezy part of the day" what do you think that meant?
Jesus, the representative and messenger of God, was the symbolic tree of life in the Garden. The “fruit” from that tree symbolized life and truth – the truth of God’s word. With the coming of Christ, life is again available to mankind through the tree of life for those who seek the understanding and wisdom of God. Revelation 22:12-14
He is the angel – MESSENGER, the meaning of the word, “angel”, both in Hebrew and in Greek …he was the messenger, Logos and spokesperson of God, who went before the camp of Israel. Exod 14:9
1 Corinthians 10:4 - and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
In Isaiah 63:9 – Jesus is called the “Angel of His presence”.
There, you see? God’s “presence” among mankind is through Jesus Christ.
Zech 12:8 - In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them.
When Jesus was on the earth in the first century, he also represented God of course, as God’s Son and as His messenger, His spokesperson.
John 14:31 - But I do exactly what the Father has commanded Me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Get up! Let us go on from here.
John 12:50 - And I know that His commandment is eternal life. Therefore what I speak, as the Father has said to Me, so I speak."
How did Moses talk “face to face” with God? Through His messenger, the Logos, through the Angel of His Presence. And by Holy Spirit. John 4:24; John 1:1,2
So, there are no scriptures that tell us that a God who is Spirit, walked in the flesh on the earth in the Garden of Eden. But there are scriptures that clearly explain the spiritual role of Jesus since the beginning of creation.
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58
Matt 7:15-20 – those whom Jesus chooses as HIS representatives, are also called trees. (Matt 10:25; John 13:13;1 Pet 2:21)
They can speak lies or truth. As Jesus said, we will know them by their fruits.
Revelation 2:7 - "Let anyone who has ears to hear listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.”
John 14:21; Prov 8:17
Seeing God literally, “face to face”, is impossible, but possible spiritually, by having spiritual perception, as God’s spiritual children. 1 John 3:2; 2 Cor 3:18
Num 6:24-26 - "May the LORD bless you and protect you; 25 "may the LORD make his face shine on you and be gracious to you; 26 "may the LORD look with favor on you* and give you peace."
-
FreeTheMasons
@Konagirl...
God is not partial.
He will hang out with all His kids.
Why are you trying to block the way?
Jesus is "The Way." He's not standing in the way.
Your "symbols" are whack.
-
Konagirl
@FreetheMasons,
It's not me that's blocking "the way". It's God's word, the scriptural truth that's blocking your way, your desire to fabricate your own delusions about God. 1 Cor 2:14
-
FreeTheMasons
Why is it so impossible to you that God would want to hang out with His own kids?
Why do you think it's impossible for the One who made the universe and everything in it to make a body to be able to visit the earth?
What do you think "God is love" really means?
Why do you overcomplicate everything?
-
FreeTheMasons
I'm taking a break from here.
Ciao for now.
💖Audrey
-
Jeffro
John spoke figuratively a lot. "In the beginning was the Word." Jesus is not literally a "word" just like he is not literally "light." John speaks figuratively.
🤦♂️ Calling Jesus ‘the word’ (Logos) was directly ripping off a Stoic branch of Greek philosophy. It’s just another pagan concept integrated into Christianity, like their beliefs about the Devil (Persian) and the garden of Eden (Babylonian).
-
Sea Breeze
@ aqwsed12345
The biblical evidence for a literal 1000 yr. reign is overwhelming. Check out the points in this quick 5 minute video by a top US pastor.
-
aqwsed12345
@Sea Breeze
The primary biblical text cited for a literal 1000-year reign is Revelation 20:1-7, which describes Satan being bound for 1000 years, followed by a period where saints reign with Christ. However, Revelation is a highly symbolic, apocalyptic text filled with imagery that represents spiritual realities rather than literal occurrences. Throughout Revelation, numbers often have symbolic meanings. The number 1000, for example, represents completeness or fullness in biblical symbolism. Psalm 50:10 describes God as owning "the cattle on a thousand hills," not as a literal count, but as a way to express God’s sovereign ownership over everything. Similarly, the 1000 years in Revelation 20 signifies the complete and perfect reign of Christ that is currently taking place—not a literal, future 1000-year period after Christ's return.
Revelation is not a straightforward narrative but a series of visions rich in metaphor. From the depiction of Christ as a lamb to the dragon representing Satan, Revelation constantly uses symbolic language. To isolate the 1000 years in Revelation 20 and interpret it literally while treating the rest of the book as symbolic is inconsistent with the genre of apocalyptic literature.
The New Testament teaches that Christ’s kingdom has already been inaugurated but has not yet been fully consummated. The amillennial view holds that we are currently in the "millennium," which represents the entire Church age, a time when Christ reigns spiritually through His Church. In passages like Matthew 28:18, Christ declares, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Similarly, in Ephesians 1:20-22, Paul affirms that Christ is currently seated at the right hand of God, ruling over all things. Colossians 1:13-14 states that believers have already been "transferred to the kingdom of His beloved Son." These passages point to the reality that Christ’s reign is not something to occur only in the future but is happening now.
Amillennialists argue that Satan’s "binding" during the 1000 years is symbolic of his limitation during the Church age. Satan is still active, but his power is curtailed so that the gospel can spread to all nations (cf. Matthew 12:29, where Jesus describes binding the strong man to plunder his house). This aligns with Revelation 20:3, which describes Satan being bound "so that he might not deceive the nations"—something that has been happening since Christ's first coming.
Premillennialism often assumes that Christ’s kingdom must be earthly and political, akin to the kingdoms of this world. However, Jesus explicitly rejected such a conception of His reign. Jesus said to Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36). His rule is not political or territorial but spiritual. He reigns in the hearts of believers and in the Church. The amillennial interpretation upholds this biblical teaching by understanding the "millennial" reign as Christ’s present spiritual reign, not as an earthly political kingdom.
According to Ephesians 2:6, believers are already "seated with Christ in the heavenly places." This does not mean a literal, physical seating but a spiritual reality of reigning with Christ through faith. Revelation 20’s mention of saints reigning with Christ reflects this spiritual authority, not a future political office on earth.
Premillennialists typically interpret the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20 as a literal physical resurrection of saints before the millennium and a second resurrection for judgment at the end of the millennium. However, this interpretation conflicts with the New Testament’s teaching on resurrection and judgment. The New Testament consistently teaches a single, general resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous at Christ's return. In John 5:28-29, Jesus states that "all who are in the tombs will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." There is no mention of two separate resurrections. Similarly, 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4 describe the resurrection of believers happening at Christ’s second coming, not at the beginning of a millennial reign. The Bible teaches that judgment occurs immediately after Christ's return. In Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus describes how, when He returns, He will gather the nations and immediately separate the sheep from the goats for judgment. There is no indication of an intermediate millennial reign before this final judgment.
Amillennialism sees Christ’s second coming as the climax of history, where He will judge the living and the dead, defeat all enemies, and usher in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22). Premillennialism introduces a confusing sequence of events, including multiple resurrections and judgments, which creates theological and eschatological complications. The Bible presents Christ’s return as the event that brings final redemption to creation. In 2 Peter 3:10-13, the "day of the Lord" is described as the time when "the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved," leading to "new heavens and a new earth." This imagery suggests a single, climactic event, not an extended period of earthly reign before final judgment.
Some premillennialists claim that early church fathers like Papias, Justin Martyr, and Irenaeus supported a literal millennial reign of Christ on earth. While it is true that some early Christians held premillennial views, it is equally true that other early church fathers, such as Origen and Augustine, argued for a more symbolic understanding of the millennium. Augustine's amillennial view became the dominant eschatology in the early Church, largely because it made better sense of Scripture’s emphasis on the already-but-not-yet nature of the kingdom. His perspective that the 1000-year reign symbolizes the period between Christ’s first and second comings has stood the test of time and is well supported by the broader context of Scripture.
Despite appearances to the contrary, chiliasm has no roots in Scripture. Above all, it ignorantly assumes that prophecy reveals the supernatural connections of the various moments in salvation history, follows divine pragmatism, and does not intend to be a premature account of history. It goes against the spirit of Scripture to treat the apocalyptic and prophetic depictions of the future as literal descriptions, rather than seeing in them symbols of God's abundant grace and power.
This applies specifically to Revelation 20:1–10, which Augustine interpreted as meaning that the thousand-year kingdom is the spread of Christ's Church on earth and the glorification of the Church’s saints and martyrs in heaven. Perhaps we come even closer to the meaning of this difficult passage, and can offer a positive evaluation of the core truth within chiliasm, which persists with surprising tenacity even in the atmosphere of revelation, if we distinguish two phases in the history of the Church as the world-power representative of the gospel. One phase is characterized by struggle across the board against anti-Christian directions and forces, and its type is the warlike King David. Currently, we are still in this phase. The other phase is characterized by the Church’s triumph over pagans and godless powers and the peaceful enjoyment of its spiritual and moral supremacy, when Satan is bound precisely because of the historical triumph of the gospel. In this period of peace, prefigured by Solomon, the prince of peace, the gospel will fully unfold as contained in the ideal program of the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount (the abolition of the death penalty, the cessation of wars, at least among Christians, great simplicity, self-sacrifice, intense service to Christ, etc.). This is the legitimate element in the hope of the spiritualists. But no more than this. We are not to expect a new revelation and a new sending of the Spirit, but rather the full development of the evangelical seed under the ripening influence of the day of history. After this comes the great struggle of the Antichrist and the second coming of the Savior. But regardless of how this unfolds, it is certain from Scripture that the chiliastic interpretation of Revelation 20 is impossible. According to the clear teaching of Scripture, the resurrection is so closely followed by the Judgment that there is no room for a thousand-year earthly paradise.
The biblical evidence for a literal 1000-year reign of Christ is far from overwhelming. In fact, when the entirety of Scripture is considered, especially its consistent teachings on the nature of Christ’s kingdom, the resurrection, and final judgment, it becomes clear that amillennialism offers a more coherent and biblically grounded understanding of eschatology. The 1000 years in Revelation 20 should be understood symbolically, representing Christ's spiritual reign throughout the Church age until His glorious return, when He will bring history to its ultimate fulfillment with the final resurrection, judgment, and the creation of the new heavens and new earth.
-
Sea Breeze
I'm sorry aqwsed,
I quit reading your post after the first sentence. In the video, the pastor said there were over 1800 OT references to the literal Kingdom. Your first sentence ignored this claim and said it primarily came from one Rev. verse.
Look, I know there are many fine Christians who are Amillennnial. It is not a Salvation issue even though the view is a left-over relic of the Catholic Church.
Personally, I have a really hard time with what Amillennialist have done. In my opinion, this view opened up a theological hole in the bible so big that it allowed the greatest bible cults of all time to run a freight train through it. People were blindsided.
Because of Amillennialists, The Watchtower was able to make their (twisted) Milllennial views look unique, like they had the truth, since there are so many scriptures that clearly support a literal kingdom. People were stunned by the literal kingdom message that JW's brought to their doors. In other words, victims were left wondering why they had never heard such a message in their church.Amillennialists alllowed a path for a bible-cult to wipe out 5 generations of my family. If all churches preached millennialism like they should, the WT COULD NOT exist. So, yeah..... I'm biased big time. I know that. How could I not be? The twisted millennial message of JW's included the elimination of Justification for believers and a return to works-based salvation. And you and I both know where that leaves a person. It leaves them facing the judgment in Hebrews 9: 27 on thier own merits instead of the merits of Jesus.
The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).
At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled. Israel is already miracuously re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31). They will be converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and fullly restored to the original land boundaries under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually.It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9; Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3). Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom.
There are countless other passages that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1,000 years.
Since I left the WT and became a Christian 20 years ago, Jesus has blessed me beyond all my wildest dreams. He has given me everthing I ever wanted and MUCH MORE. I am humbled and my pride has be neutralized by his generosity. Many trials and threats accompanied his generosity as well just like he said they would.
Like a close friend, I want the same for Jesus. I want him to get EVERYTHING he ever wanted. I want to see the entire nation of Israel, cry out to him "blessed is he who cometh in the name of the Lord". I want him to enjoy the honor due him at all the ethnic parties and festivals the Jews have. I want to see them weep crocodile tears in gut-wrenching anguish when they realize what happened to the greatest of their native sons. I want to see all government officials bow to him as King of the Earth as someone who not only has the inheritable legal right, but also as someone who duly purchased the whole mess with his precious, perfect and sinless lamb-like blood.
All this will come to pass in the wrap-up of the GT and the Millennial Kingdom. His Triumphal entry into Jerusalem in preperation of the "Judgment of the Nations" after he neutralizes the Anti-Christ will be awesome. I think and dream about Jesus getting everthing he wants almost every day. It is my greatest desire.