Danny boy,
Myxo,
<<<I think you better give that statement a second thought.
Almost all of the entire western hemisphere's population is in fact 'christian' due to the preaching (missionary) work of one particular church.>>>
Danny, I think you misunderstood, I didn't say Christians did not preach, obviously they do. I was showing that what is preached is phenomenally different. Did you think Christians preached 1914, a heavenly and earthly class, an ORGANIZATION, or an invisible presence of Christ then? I wasn't aware of this :)
<<<<Not to mention if you can get any of the adherents to 'christian religions' to admit openly(that is difficult esp for jw's) that they do in fact believe that they will not receive 'paradise', heaven, a thrown, from their god.......UNLESS they follow the rules of their selected faith.>>>>
ummmmm, because rules in Christianity is STRICTLY forbidden, therefore you wouldn't have rules to follow. (there's a great article about this on Freeminds somewhere,, I can't find it at the moment) The way that you stated it is that if you don't do certain 'works' you don't REALLY think you are saved. As a Christian I would have to say that is absolutely absurd, perhaps you don't know as much about Christianity as you suppose. It's interesting that you should say that, because in talking openly to a JW, I was arguing the VERY Christian position that THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO.. and you know what? He scoffed and said, 'oh, ok, so let's just sit on our arses and do nothing'
(*by the way, JW's are not a Christian religion by any stretch of the imagination. it's all milk and water)
Here is the conversation which was quite awhile ago, which I saved. You can judge for yourself how alike the Christian and JW position is alike from a conversation between myself and one (with regard to doing works) (no, I did not make this up) I think perhaps instead of telling you NO, and you telling me that I'm 'just not admitting it' this will have to be my proof, since it was between myself and a JW quite a long time ago actually.
JW: and how then in MAtt 24:14 supposed to be fulfilled on that basis? 'Faith without works is dead' as it says in James
ME: Alright, that's a good point, but there are far many more passages in the bible that speak of salvation by Grace through Faith
JW: so you just ignore the ones that talk about preaching to people?
*****JW: nowhere does it talk about grace through faith alone. nowhere*****
ME: Ok, if you want me to look up the exact verses, ermmm,,, i'm very slow, it'll take time
ME: not at all ignore the ones about preaching to people
JW1: i know the verses you are going to quote, all the born again christians quote the same ones so dont bother
JW: ive been there
JW: done that
JW: and theres no point
JW: you annot and will not accept the need to get up and do something
JW: like witness to people
*Myx: in other words, I don't believe there are RULES to be followed, WORKS to be done in order to be saved. Neither do any Christians for the most part.*
ME: ok, as for the verse that says salvation by Grace through Faith, ::::::Ephesians 2:5 It is by Grace that you have been saved, and that not of yourself, it is a gift from God, NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST
JW: yes thats talking about Jehovahs mercy, check the original greek
JW: and when you read the original greek you find paul was saying that this mercy is a gift from JAh so none of us should boast about our own works
JW: now explain the scipture in James that says faith without workds is dead
JW: how do you get round that?
JW: then tally it up with Matt 24:13- he that has endured to the END is the one that shall be saved. how do you explina that?
JW: and the end hasnt arrived yet
ME: alright, : Salvation from God's wrath, which we incurred by our sinfulness, and establishes the necessity of faith in Christ as the only means of being made right with God, not from yourselves, no human effort can contribute to our salvation, it is a gift from God, one cannot earn salvation by observing the law: Romans 3:20, 28, such a legalistic approach to salvation is consistently condemned in the scripture
*******JW: absolute crap******* (Myx: ABSOLUTE CRAP, oh, very much alike)
ME: I don't have to explain anything, the bible says it again, over and over .....Grace, grace grace grace grace grace, freely given
jonnytriphers: *fred answer me this, do you believe you have to WORK (do works) for Salvation??
JW: i believe you have to work for salvation yes. I believe God loves us and if we accept knowledge and do what he requires of us we will be saved at the END of this system of things
*Myx: this is at a point when he decided I was from the devil, and it wasn't safe to keep contact with me anymore, I called him a coward*
JW: really? you think its cowardly. yet im the one who drags my arse out to preach to strangers about the good news
JW: what do you do?
JW: oh you sit and say youve been saved
*Myx: there you go, I won't 'admit' to the need for rules, because I DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT, further, THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT TEACH IT, they teach that Salvation is FREE*
JW: how convenient
ME: Oh, good for you *fred, and wow, it's so nice to see that your not self righteous whatsoever about it
JW: you were the one calling me cowardly
ME: THERE ARE NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO NOT EVEN ONE
JW: i was defending myself
ME: we are the all singing, all dancing crap of the world
JW: lol
JW: so lets just all sit on our arses then yey
JW: why bother
ME: Ok, it's obvious, that you are clearly superior to me because of your door to door work
JW: well its obvious one of us is doing the right thing
JW: you believe its you
JW: i believe its me
ME: no, i never said i was doing anything!!
ME: I said I believe that CHRIST did EVERYTHING for me!!!!
ME: I'm not going to take any fucking glory for myself
ME: i've done nothing
*Myx: to which he found 'scary' that a Christian literally can do NOTHING in order to EARN salvation. And by the way, after that he didn't speak to me for months. Very similar is it?
Danny: That is a commonality of the majority of all religions on earth. Not so easy to dismiss this reality.
Myx: sadly it is, good thing to look for and if you see it, avoid that certain group.
Good try tho Myxo.
*Myx: Good try Danny
Myxomatosis
