Naa, AGuest needs to just let it all hang out, ahmmm I mean let our Lord direct her steps. Frankly I think she is the sanest person/poster here, LOL, she makes utter sense to me. Oh well who ever said I was sane . . . Sister AGuest keep up the great posts if you would . . .
For those who ask, "why, God?"
by AGuest 49 Replies latest watchtower bible
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gumby
I don't think that Shelby looks for the "weak and hurting" and chooses to speak with them especially. She speaks to all here the same as a hurting newbie. Hurting,and gullible people can be hurt by others here also who say things rather roughly as I am famous for. Anyone who is gullible enough to take any persons teachings as truth without fully checking out the validity of what they teach will always be game for somebody.
Farkle mentioned in a post a few days ago about having lunch with Shelby ....as he has done in the past... and spoke VERY highly of her and said she pushed NOTHING on him as far as what she presents here. He said she is as sweet as pie and I feel the same way.
Do I believe what she say's here? Hell no! But I like her and feel what she says she believes............wheather it seems weird to us or not.
Gumby
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noko
What is funny, everytime I read one of AGuest posts I think of the Oracle in the Matrix and hear her voice. Now I know AGuest would deny this this to the hills because she is no medium but that is my problem I guess. Hi AGuest, I love the Matrix as well and watched the blasted movie at least 30 times and waiting for Matrix Reload to come to DVD so that I can probably repeat my previous record. I did see Matrix Reload at the theator and had a blast. One of the few movies that got my brain cells active I might add. May Jah continue to bless you.
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Cassiline
((( Shelby )))
You are a very kind soul who I thank for addressing these questions. I however have to take offense at this statement:
My Father is allowing US... each of us... to make our OWN lives a reply to Satan; He is not replying FOR us... or protecting us from the challenge presented by Satan. Satan... said we are "wimps". I am almost tempted to say that he was right: perhaps we are not truly cut out to be spirit beings, but like Adam, will do what WE want, no matter the cost... and then blame God and everyone else.
I do not believe I made my own childhood nor what I would call what I wanted, I DO BLAME the individuals who stripped my innocence from me. I understand your arguments of the trials of Job... yet, he was a man not a child, a baby... why would god test a child?
If divine intervention can not happen when needed then why? Why the pain and suffering for those who will never know ( due to death) what it is professed for us not to know at this time?
Hugs
Cassi
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AGuest
I would like to respond to the following, if I may. Thank you!
Shelby wrote:
“If it seemed that God was always there, always answering, always saving us... it would be EASY for us to love Him, wouldn't it? Of course…”
In response, JT wrote:
“You have 5 yr old child who goes to school each day and gets beat on by the teacher, comes home with bruises and a busted nose, cuts and abrasions - the child ask you to go to school to talk to the teacher, yes just help him out , and your response is: "Honey if I am always there, always answering, always saving you... it would be EASY for you to love me, wouldn't it? Of course" For some reason i don't think that you would do that , instead you would help your helpless child who is beaten on by an adult each day..."
To be sure, I don't believe my comment was speaking of a mere 5 year old child; indeed, many times I have tried to help folks who use that argument (Teejay?) that it is unfair to compare ourselves to such. We cry out that we want to be treated as ADULTS, we fail to heed the direction of the Christ to "become as little children," but we always want to make the "little children" argument. I don't think we can have it both ways.
In addition, by your argument, dear JT, I can see that what you are not seeing is the correct roles of the individuals involved, particularly in how they relate to God and HIS role. I think you are trying to argue that the "teacher" in this case IS the parent. But that doesn't truly fit, because if the case is as you state it, it would be the PARENT of that child who would go to school and deal with the teacher, yes? And so, you are intimating that your fleshly parent is the teacher, and God the parent. Right?
But if that is the case, what, then, if it is the PARENT who is beating on the child? Who steps in then? If your case is as you state it, God then, is the one beating the child. But can you have it both ways? Can God be the parent and your fleshly parent (or whomever) the teacher? Perhaps. If God truly IS your parent. Unfortunately, you have made the mistake that God is the Father of all, which is entirely untrue, as I will make clear below.
For now, though, you, like many others, simply wish to put JAH in the “parent” role… rather than hold the TRUE parent, whose responsibility it was/is NOT to beat on such child, responsible. But that is exactly the problem: such parents are NEVER held responsible - only God is! But in TRUTH, JAH… would NOT be the parent, but rather, the social services person/government. But now let me ask you and you tell me… TRUTHFULLY… what happens when the government steps in and takes a child from an abusive parent? Or incarcerates the parent(s)? How does the CHILD react (nevermind the parent!)
Is it not TRUE that NEITHER want to be separated from the other, and that TRULY the child just wants the parent to STOP the abuse and just love them? But HOW can the government MAKE the parent love his/her own child? If even the child cannot, simply by means of BEING such one's child, can anyone else make it happen? So, then, what are the "government's" choices? Remove the child? Remove the parent? Kill the parent?
Okay, so what if the government did those things? What if they just ZAP! killed the parent(s)? What do you think the CHILD's reaction would be? Do you think the child would be happy and applaud the government for doing a “good” work on their behalf? Do you think the child would EVER mature to a point where it would say, "Yes, I see where you needed to do that, for MY protection." Do you truly think the child would ever mature past that particular point in their life... or would they carry it, all of it, the abuse and the retribution, inside them for the remainder of their life? Isn't it true that most likely the child would say, “Well, you didn’t have to kill him/her! It wasn’t that bad! I could’ve taken it – he/she would’ve changed!” Which to you think is more LIKELY?
Thus, the government… and therefore, God… is damned if it/He does… and damned if it/He is doesn’t. Yes? And how, then, is God to reconcile that yes: true, he may have stopped the abuse, but at what cost? Devastating a child’s heart, perhaps to the point where the child now distrusts… and yes, even hates… Him? Or should He do what logic dictates: wait until the child is "master" of his own life... and THEN invite such one to come to Him and be healed... when it is now the CHILD's choice to make and no one else's? Tell me, as God, what choice would YOU do?
Unfortunately, however, so many "children" want to hang on to anger, hurt, pain, hatred, etc. Why? Because... it... is... a... "woobie". It is a "comfort blankie." They have know such for SO long that to lose it, get rid of it, have it taken away, GIVE it away... is unthinkable. They KNOW anger, hurt, pain, hatred. They KNOW what such things FEEL like... and so such things are... familiar... comfortable. But the alternatives... happiness... calmness... peace... love... THOSE things... are alien. Uncomfortable. Unfamiliar. And we are creatures... of habit. We CLING... to what we know... and RUN... from what we do not. And if all we know is pain... is anger... is hurt... is hatred... THAT is what we will run TO.
It is the VERY reason why children of abuse become abusers... why children of alcoholic/drug environments become alcoholics and drug users... why children of welfare have no problem getting on welfare... why children who were molesters BECOME molesters: it is what they KNOW, usually among the FIRST things they come to know. No, I know that is that ALWAYS the case... there are always exceptions to the rule. But there are two constants in this world: one is change... and the other is that humans are "products" of their environments. That is, unless they CHANGE... and such change must be a CHOICE. Someone... has to break the cycle. Those who choose not to... simply perpetuate them.
I, too, had pain as a child, similar to what many describe here. However, I had not CHOICE: others made those choices for me. Whose choice is it NOW, though, to live withOUT pain, withOUT anger, withOUT hurt, withOUT hatred? It is mine and mine alone. But who was going to teach me? My parents? But THEY didn't know how? My abuser? Sure, right! Religious leaders? They PEDDLE pain and anger and hatred... by their very pious judgments and condemnations! Nope, there was only One... and he HAS taught me, just as he promised.
JT further wrote:
“Yet you try to sell us the concept that somehow by god allowing his kids to kill each other and hurt each other - it is suppose to result in the injured child who has been begging for help - loving him even more…”
JT, where have you got such a thing? Who told you, taught you that God allows such things? You are in error. God does NOT teach, tell or allow HIS children to do any such thing. It is the children OF THE DEVIL who do such things; it is THEIR “father” that they listen to. Contrastly, God… BEGS His children not to do such things… and sent His Son to TEACH us not to. If you believe otherwise, you have failed to understand God, by failing to understand the Christ, his teachings… and his purpose.
T o some degree, this failure is not your fault: it is the fault of those who use the word “Christianity” to manifest a way of life that is FALSE to God and FALSE to Christ. Such ones honor God with their LIPS… but, as can be seen by their FRUITS… their HEARTS… are far removed from him. They have simply found a way to promote their hatred and wicked agendas… by committing heinous acts “in the name of God”… and FALSELY saying that they have His approval. But, they can say “Lord, Lord, didn’t we” all they want. In the end, my Lord WILL say to them, “Get AWAY from me, you workers of lawlessness!” For they are FALSE christs and FALSE prophets… intent on misleading, if possible, EVEN the chosen ones.
I understand your chagrin, dear JT. Yours and others. But it is misplaced. You are blaming God for action or inaction that He has made no agreement to make… and overlooking the agreement(s) He HAS made. Can I hold you to obligations which you have not agreed to? Yet, we presume that He is obligated. By what means? On what basis? He has SAID what is “good”… and what we are to do to manifest such good, toward Him, toward our brothers and loved ones, toward our neighbors… and toward our enemy. And what we would "reap" if we did such good. But, i f WE… individually or as a species… choose to ignore it (and while we may not think we ignore it personally, we may by means of whom we let speak FOR us!), then He is released from any obligation toward us. That… was the agreement.
I hope this serves to answer your concerns on this issue. If not, that’s okay. I can only speak what is true to you… whether you hear or refrain. It is not MY truth, however, so the fact that you may be unable to accept it from me is okay: I do not take it personally, as I am only a messenger. Although you and others might believe different, y our challenge is not TO me. Rather, i t is to God… why HE acts or does not act as YOU believe He should. It is up to Him, then, to make a final reply to you, which I have come to know He will.
As always, I bid you peace.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
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gumby
Shelby!....................your alive!
Where have you been so long our kind friend? I have been going to PM you to see if you had gone back to dubland or something!!!!! ( you gotta try out the new emoticons!)
Nice to see your voice again...
Luvs ya,
Gumby
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AGuest
The greatest of peace to you, dear one! I would like to respond:
Shelby wrote:
My Father is allowing US... each of us... to make our OWN lives a reply to Satan; He is not replying FOR us... or protecting us from the challenge presented by Satan. Satan... said we are "wimps". I am almost tempted to say that he was right: perhaps we are not truly cut out to be spirit beings, but like Adam, will do what WE want, no matter the cost... and then blame God and everyone else.
Cassiline wrote:
I do not believe I made my own childhood nor what I would call what I wanted, I DO BLAME the individuals who stripped my innocence from me.
You do well, for it is such ones to blame, along with our Adversary, whose agenda they allowed themselves to be used to push.
I understand your arguments of the trials of Job... yet, he was a man not a child, a baby... why would god test a child?
Cassiline, let me ask you and you tell me, truthfully: was it God who "tested" Job? Was it God who challenged Job's integrity? Was it God who made the accusation and ASKED to be allowed to put it to the test? Tell me, who was it that brought a trial upon Job?
If divine intervention can not happen when needed then why? Why the pain and suffering for those who will never know ( due to death) what it is professed for us not to know at this time?
I don't think the question is "if" God will intervene, versus "when" He will. But isn't that up to Him? Were not Job's children taken from him... as a test of JOB? The test was not put upon his children, yet it was they who died, and not Job, yes? But WHO killed such children... in order to break JOB?
I cannot tell you how much it pains my heart that here we HAVE an account written down, with all of the details of who said what and who did what... and yet God is still blamed. How does that work exactly?
Satan... made a challenge. Satan killed Job's children AND brought other trials upon Job. And... even Job... thought it was God. Do you not see? If the man JOB thought God was acting... it would seem NATURAL that we would, too! And there is one who is COUNTING on that! BUT... we have what Job did NOT: a RECORD... of who actually said... and did... what... and who did not!
Now, the argument will be, why did God LET Satan do what he did... why does God let him even now... why doesn't God DO something? And I answered that: because it is WE who must make the reply! Satan did not challenge God - he challenged... US. He said that WE... ONLY... love God if and when He does something FOR us... including protecting us. GOD... however... said, no... that we are not THAT SHALLOW. Can God PROVE that FOR us? Or do we have to prove it ourselves?
Satan said, Cassiline, that he could bring things upon you that will break your faith in... and your love of... God. That if it wasn't one thing, it would be another. Was he right?! We ALL have to ask ourselves: what CAN separate us from God? Is there ANYTHING? Because if there IS... Satan WILL find it... and exploit it!!
We forget... that while what is IN us is "hidden" for the most part by our FLESH... it is WE who "reveal" it... one way or another... by our "fruits". And Satan waits for just that: whatever he can use to prove his challenge right. If there is ANYTHING that you love more than God... Satan is searching for it. Why? TO PROVE HIMSELF RIGHT: skin in behalf of skin and ALL that a man has he will give... to save his soul!
So, if you love your 1955 T-Bird more than God, that will be his target. That will be what he will use to get you to "curse God, and die." If you love your child... more than you love God... THAT is what he will use... to get you to curse God, and die. Abraham proved that he did NOT love his "only-begotten" son more than God, and such son was spared. Job proved that he did NOT love his sons and daughter more than God, and so was given even more sons and daughters. Apparently, Job didn't love his WIFE as much as some may think, because she never became a target. And that is not surprise, for perhaps she "belonged" to Satan already - it was she who Satan "used" to try and get Job to give in.
Cassi... this stuff is not rocket science; it is A-B-C. But unless we DO "become like little children," and stop trying to see more than there is to see... and stop trying to rationalize and make ourselves "right"... and God "wrong"... we'll never get it. Why? It said that if you oppose the Devil, he will flee from you. If you oppose God, then, what is HE to do? And no one comes to the Son... unless the FATHER draws such one. Why, then, would God draw someone who opposes Him?
I hope this helps and as always I bid you the greatest of peace... and love.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
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AGuest
peace to you... and yes, I am alive!! It is good to be back... and I will explain my absence in a separate thread (if that's okay with Teejay - LOLOLOLOL!)
It's good to "see" your "voice", too!
The greatest of love and peace to you!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
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AGuest
May you have peace! I am sorry it has taken me so long to respond to you. Please accept my apologies, and I will try to do so, now: SJ wrote:
And how did those before me make such proof? Was it not based on their claim?
IW wrote:
There are a bunch of men in Brooklyn who claim to be appointed by God. There are a bunch of men in the Vatican who also claim to serve God and speak for him. Like you they would like their followers to believe that just their claim is good enough. Sorry that does not cut it.
First, I would have to say that I wasn't speaking of these, but rather those appointed by my Lord and thus, in receipt of holy spirit. True, I know that at least one of these groups (Brooklyn) also make that claim, but their hypocrisy is SO blatant, it is evident (to those who see!) that they are not who they claim to be. In addition, while they claim to be appointed by God ("Jehovah"), they also readily admit that they are not "prophets". I would also say that they are false, as can be seen by their "works". They do not do the "works" of the Christ (i.e., promote love by means of having and manifesting their PITY and COMPASSION for others, particularly their enemies). Rather than release, they bind. Rather than show mercy, they judge. Rather than forgive, they condemn. If they WERE true, then they would do the WORKS of Christ, yes? That's with regard to the folks in Brooklyn. With regard to those in the Vatican, again, all you need do is look at their "works". True, they support hospitals and orphanages and relief work worldwide. And they are to be commended for that. However, they also call those on earth "father," they have seated one man, the Pope, in the seat of Moses (the Brooklyn boys have seated a whole group!), they worship the Mother versus the Father, they have a history of promoting war for their own financial gain AND... they historially "made" converts NOT by teaching them the truth about God and Christ... but by coersion and extortion... even death. "Lord, Lord, did not (do such and so) in your name?" Both groups are guilty of "binding" heavy loads upon God's people... and ALL people... when my Lord came not to bind... but to RELEASE. Shelby wrote:
Are you SURE you want such proof? Because IF you would take a moment to read the accounts... you would find that whenever such proof was DEMANDED... it usually did not come as the people... expected. The ONLY time it came... ummmm... peacefully... is when the people did NOT demand proof... but walked... WITH FAITH. (bolding mine)
IW wrote:
LOL, Yes Woman! Show me proof from your God! Strike me with leprosy, let the worms eat me up, turn my blood to water........what a ridiculous crock.
And this is why I left the Board for a time: what you ask, you do not know. Truly. I will explain it in another post.
IW wrote:
Sure SJ, call upon your god to show me ......ummmm peacefully or not babe, I do not fear Satan.
Your implication here is that Satan is my god. And so, I must caution you against your blasphemy against the spirit by which I have shared what I received with you. IW wrote:
When it comes to prophets, works are paramount, continuous miraculous works. God's Spirit gives visible proofs, show us proofs SJ. You come here with some high claims, but no proofs. You are therefore a false prophet. Veiled religious threats from you mean nothing.
Unfortunately, dear IW, the word of my Father is that you will receive the very proof you have requested, as requested by your OWN heart. I will relate how I know that to be in another thread. But... it will be done. I asked for mercy, but it is not to be. SJ wrote:
You are COMPLETELY in error. NO ONE can claim to be led by holy spirit... or speak by MEANS of holy spirit... unless they are INDEED led by and speaking by means of... such spirit. I would direct you back to whatever YOUR "source" is... and tell them that they have lied to you, completely misled you.
IW wrote:
This may be one of the funniest things you ever said. Lots of people claim to speak by holy spirit, the claim alone means nothing SJ. Listen up okay? Let's try this little experiment and see if it works........
It only SEEMS funny... now... IW wrote:
"I IslandWoman am led by God's Holy Spirit and am speaking to you by God's Holy Spirit! What you do is wrong, desist from misleading my people."
I have no authority... or freedom to respond. What you have done... you have done. IW wrote:
Well I said it so that must mean I am! Oops sorry for the "I am" part.
I don't think sorry... for any part of it... will be enough anymore, dear IW. But, what can I say? IW wrote:
I'm a waitin' for your proof SJ.
I have no proof, dear IW, that will suffice. What proof you will receive... will not be mine, nor will it come from me. A slave of Christ, SJ
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ESTEE
I choose to not blame God....as in "Why, God...?"...Because I am no one's victim!
I choose to ask "Why God...?" as in...why would I ask something (external of myself) for things I have the power within myself to achieve?
I empower myself to accomplish anything I set my heart and mind to accomplish! After all, I have a god-like image and qualities...as I am creative, loving, intelligent and powerful!!!
As are we all!!!
ESTEE