Doing the Right Thing, Making a Choice (shunning)

by Simon 71 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Simon

  These people are cold-hearted, ruthless, vindictive, narcissist, unapologetic, spiteful, hateful, self-centered sociopaths who lack empathy for others and only care about their own appearance before their almighty WT Cult.

  It does seem almost like they view it as a chance to earn some gold stars on their badge for extra-special service.

  But we have all seen posters who say that they have never personally shunned. It can be done.

  I think people hand the Society as much power as they wish. Everyone knows the pioneer/elder who sees their d/f son all the time and who noone would dream of saying a word to.

  How many have actually been disfellowshipped for having contact with someone who has left? I suspect it isn't a huge segment of those who do leave so it may well be a sanction without any teeth - it relies on people never questioning it and realizing they just don't need to do it.

  The only power the elders have is power you give to them. That goes all the way to the top.
• 

  steve2

  Simon wrote:

  I'm not sure they are reasoning quite in that direct way. I believe few people ever genuinely reason "if I talk to you I will die at the big A" even though the end result may appear that way (yeah, I guess some will but I think it's what they "say" more than truly believe).

  Actually, I think the Witnesses are very clear about why they would not talk to a disfellowshipped person. Yes, I agree it is not as direct as believing they will 'die at Armaggedon' but it is a genuine fear of becoming "contaminated" and led astray by false reasoning. That is the "bogey" that hangs over them.
• 

  Simon

  but it is a genuine fear of becoming "contaminated" and led astray by false reasoning. That is the "bogey" that hangs over them

  Yes, that's more likely. The glee that some shun is because of the points they earn and the praise they get for "being ever so faithful" and the fear of being marked as 'unfaithful' is the opposite motivator. Carrots and sticks - different ones operate more or less effectively for each person.

  I think there is a certain amount of conditioning as well though and the fact that they really don't ever make decisions about so many things - they are so used to doing as they are told they never even consider the possibility that they don't need to.
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  poopie

  I think what you are seeing niw is Jehovah not blessing and orgsnixation that treats sinners like dog poop and worse. Time to pay the price
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  StarTrekAngel

  I think that if one was to be involved in a murder case, the person pulling the trigger takes all the blame. You could never say that the bullet has some blame, even if a tiny one.

  I agree that there might be those JWs out there that see shunning as a realization of power. A way for them to channel who they truly are. Steven Hassan explains in his book that someone that is under cult indoctrination does not loose free will and his abilities to make choices, but they do loose the choices themselves. i.e.: before being a JW, a situation may present you with choice A,B and C. After being indoctrinated, option C may be out of the pool because you were indoctrinated to think the bible speaks against option C, even though most reasonable people would not see it as such. You still have free will, except your options are now limited.

  I don't care how much you know about the health benefits of salads, if someone managed to convince you that the salad is poisoned, you will not eat it. This happens to all of us day in and day out. Some people are afraid of flying to the point they won't fly at all, yet they have no problems texting and driving all the time. This only changes when you have a major awakening. People have awakenings to all sorts of things, not just from cults.
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  StarTrekAngel

  Yep. agree Simon. Last assembly we were presented with the fine example of an anointed sister from my cong. She went on stage and actually cried while she talked about the disappointment of her son leaving the truth. Everybody clapped like there is not tomorrow. What they don't know is that she doesn't truly shun her kid. For once, it is easier for her, the guy leaves hours away so they don't always see each other. But every now and then, when he comes, she doesn't take the chance to show her stance. She also visits with him and I have pictures to prove it.
• 

  Bill Covert

  It was this issue that put me in contact with this web site. There was a long time poster on this site who was disfellowshiped when we would come in contact [at ciccuit assembly or KH] I would talk to him, he asked me why and my reply was that I was following the stated instructions of Jesus and treated him like I would a IRS agent or a man of the nations. That meant a lot to him that he was treated with respect. I even had him do some work for me. In time as my letter writing campaign [the one mentioned in the "Human Apostate" talk of the 2013 summer convention] came to his mail box contact was made and I was alerted to this site. As I am a hot item our contact is in the past.

  I have used this site to keep up with the current events with in the church, as communication is all one sided, my letters get through the WBTS 'wall of silence' and make it to the internal church 'grape vine' but nothing comming back as to effect of letters. Though every now and then I get a scrap of information that yes indeed i am touching some very raw nerves of the local elders as to their involvement with a real life cock sucker who had a 20+ year career swindling the elderly with in the church. The base issue was a $4.250M unregistered securties swindle.

  As to my having an impact on the churchs policy of shunning I have been in a mental chess match to publicly humilate the church and its policys. I am a parent isolated from 5 sons, their wives and i think 10 grandchildren. I am one of those Viet Nam war felons due to church policy on community service violation of conscience of which I resent, so indeed I do have a chip on my shoulder. I am close to 1/2 million dollars in alimony since 2004 and I want that money BACK!

  So Simon shunning is a tool for churchs to exercise control over people BUT if the church lets its pants down to sell the Word of God to a cock sucker Isa.1:23, simony, then they allow an opponent oppertunity to grab them by the balls [Barbara Anderson told me that when she was in Bethel in the 1990's the church found that speech to be offensive as my letters to Merton Campbell and were deemed the vilest of any man in the USA]. The WBTS is stupid in its policy, to strip a man of everything is to put him into a position of having nothing left to loose. If the church had been smart they would always leave an opponent with something to loose hence an ability to control an adversary. It has been a long time working on this project, 25 years of letters to the church, 11 years of letters to local church grape vine and I hope to have it finished soon. Things are looking pretty good right now.

  Bill
• 

  Diogenesister

  Nicolou & everyone, I've just watched that horrible video of the infamous "shunning couple" and that womens'body laguage says it all - constantly wringing her hands she can't wait to get off the stage - she knows it's BS.

  In their 50's, stuck at beth-hell she knows damn well that "spiritual direction" to shun doesn't come from Jesus or Jah, it comes from the org.

  No doubt her son is another captive prisoner of the org.

  Amnesty should start lobbying the govt for his freedom.
• 

  sparrowdown

  Imagine if individual JWs just started saying no.

  No to shunning.

  No to prying questions.

  No to dragging their families to RCs

  No to dishonest recruiting methods.

  Yes to whole blood if needed.

  Yes to immediate reporting of child abuse.

  Yes to self expression.

  Yes to researching this religion and the bible.

  You have the power, it's called free will.
• 

  Diogenesister

  Insofar as I'm concerned it is morally acceptable for one person to shun another if the individual knows precisely the conduct at issue and has made a personal choice to shun based on that conduct. In that case individual accountability for shunning is put under an even more intense lens of scrutiny. They can't, for instance, get away with saying "Well So-n-So did something horrible otherwise they'd not be disfellowshipped." Instead the individual has to be comfortable saying, for example, "I'm shunning So-n-So because So-n-So was asking questions that my religion's leaders could not answer for."

  Again Marvin, you have a real point. As has been said before on this forum we choose to shun people all the time. I shunned the neighbour who keeps stealing, shun the traffic warden who gives me parking tickets outside my own home.

  We do choose to shun people for various lengths of time depending on what they have done (& typically whether an apology is forthcoming) and usually for a limited time span.

  To force them to confront the fact that they are shunning you essentially for a thought crime as no matter what we were df for we are not coming back (so the shunning will be possibly for all time ), can only be good.