A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  waton

  Why do they ignore all the other anointed who were alive in 1914 and only focus on Franz in the chart in the video?

  GG For wt weiters, any pre -1914 characters are an embarrassment, and not even part of their 1919 F&DS. Forward overlap is bad enough, why add the backflip overlap too?

  Splane only named F.Franz, but said other older ones may exist. and

  did I mention in defence of wt, that the contemporaries in Joseph's generation lived to 145, 110, 120 years old, just like some people today????? so

  dont despair, that would bring the last group of the comtemporary generation well into the 22 century.

  I hope you noticed my tongue firmly planted in cheek, hoping for a long lived generation for all.
  
  
  
  
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I recently engaged with a JW regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points I was making. I was left a little confused as to what the official JW response would/should be.

  
  That is typical nowadays. Most adult JW's in the 70's through the 90's who studied at all could answer questions about the doctrine. And it's not really that the JW's later were not as sharp, but the doctrine started changing so much and was so goofy that many didn't bother to keep up with the chariot.
  
  Despite my never accepting it, I can at least explain it, like a good JW should be able to do.
  The short story- There was a group of JW's alive in 1914 whose lives significantly overlapped with JW's later, and without any reason whatsoever (other than that time is up on their old doctrines), they are saying the two groups are one big overlapping generation, and the end will come before the second group passes away.
  
  Basically, my great grandmother died at 103 and I was an adult before she passed, so our lives overlapped significantly. Despite her being 60 years older than me, the 'overlapping generation' crap says that my great grandmother and I are of the same generation.
• 

  joey jojo

  It's believed by JW's because they are conditioned to believe what they are told as coming directly from God himself.

  Trying to reason with a jw will leave you frustrated and unsatisfied. A bit like going to a brothel for a hug.
• 

  waton

  they are saying the two groups are one big overlapping generation, and the end will come before the second group passes away

  OTWO, No, they are not saying that any more. That was the story when the generation was the general population, destined to be killed at Armageddon,whereas (Millions of Other Sheep will never die). These days, according to Splane, and wt article,

  The generation of partakers will pass away, when they are finished overlapping, at the outset of the Great Tribulation, long before all the Things have occurred.

  Even Jesus stands corrected.
  
  
• 

  waton

  so to sum up, if you want to debate me, the phantom wt apologist, you have to know what you are up against.

  Wt uses 'generation' and 'contemporaries' interchangeably

  Their proof text: Exodus 1 : "Joseph and that 'generation' (of contemporaries)

  His closest family, his brothers were produced by the ladies in his fathers harem in 10 years ( a very short generation ) *, but some of Joseph's contemporaries lived 110, 120, 145 years. Plenty of time to stretch that overlap into hundreds of years.

  The key example of anointed faithful is F Franz died in 1992, ~99 years old, served since 1914, 78 years in bethel. 21 years excluded from overlap time. because it's outside the time of THE generation. David Splane opined that older, longer serving anointed are out there. so,

  let us round up those ages: 100 years lifespan, , 20 minimum years at age of anointing (like Franz) Add that 80 years to 1994, that gives you 1974 as the outer dated for the " anointed "going to their heavenly award", the anointed generation to pass away.

  That is near the start of the Great Tribulation. and after that rapture, the anointed in heaven will have to be ready by 2075 to ride as immortal warriors into the battle of Armageddon.

  My position as wt defender is secure until another 25*, 75. 75 date. so

  what is this with squabbling over "soon"." last days" ???,-- see my overlapping wt apologist after 2075, 55 years from now, only then will the numbers l have run out. again. (2 solar eclipses in 2075 bsw, timed to the second, if you are interested in true prophecies)

  * Wt predicted the resurrection of the "faithful men of old " Princes" for 1925. a close fit to the 10 year generation batch of brothers.
• 

  Number 6

  The March 15th 1980 Watchtower (the one that "apologised" for 1975) comes to their rescue here.

  In the same article "Choosing The Best Way of Life" in para 4 (the one immediately preceeding their apology) states:

  "If we remain faithful, God will not let us make ruinous mistakes. But sometimes he permits us to be in error so that we may see our need to look always to him an his Word. ..... We learn from our mistakes that it is necessary to be more careful in the future"

  So... the perfect get out clause. Oh our understanding was flawed between 19xx and 20xx because God allowed us to make a mistake! They can make up any old shit they like and get out of it a few years later using the above excuse.

  If they could get out of the 1975 debacle using that excuse then they can use it for anything!
• 

  Finkelstein

  The overlapping generation doctrine is the WTS/JWorg attempt to twist and embellish Jesus own words written into scripture and was done so to uphold and support the previously established doctrine of 1914.

  That in itself was an act of apostasy for Jesus himself condemned his faithful followers toward making up a set a time upon god's own sacred time and really that is why most other Christian faiths have not set time like what the leaders of the Watchtower Corporation have done.

  In biblical epistemology a generation was to signify or accepted as the life span of an individual, so once you past lets say 100 years you have past that generational time length.

  Talk about false religion !
  

  1914 has been a core doctrine of the JWS religion for over a 100 years and more.

  If you were a baptized participating JWS and questioned the viability of 1914, you would be swiftly disbanded and disfellowshipped for apostasy by the controlling elders of the congregations.
  
  
• 

  dozy

  This is the David Splane JW broadcasting "explanation" of the "New Light" on the overlapping generation. Charts and all ( I was kind of waiting for the Powerpoint presentation. )

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol6pGBp_PUk

  But to be honest - why bother trying to convince an active JW? It's a pointless exercise. I remember trying to discuss this a few years ago with an uncle who is a JW elder & he still believed the generation were the wicked ones - he hadn't realised it had evolved several times since then. He still wasn't bothered. You either believe in this crap or you don't.
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  Finkelstein

  Overlapping generations = lies to support and cover over previously stated lies.

  The JWS religion was built and formed upon a foundation of lies to create

  a formulated " Truth "
  

  Perhaps not so surprising being that this religion has a publishing house active at its operational core.
  
• 

  Vidiot

  Giles Gray - "...These days, most JWs seem to be in the religion because it suits their agenda..."

  Hmph.

  Other than servitude to an authoritarian high control group, there's not much of an agenda.

  Don't kid yourself.

  The real reason the majority of "apologists" stay is because they know what kind of draconian consequences they'll experience if they don't.

  They just don't want to admit it out loud.