When issues would come that no jw could really explain, my jw would say; "you have to come to the meeting to understand". My response would be, " you mean I can't understand the Bible without the org AND I can't understand one of their magazines without going to a meeting? why hand out the mags then?". crickets.
A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist
by Giles Gray 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Giles Gray
Waton:-
“For wt weiters, any pre -1914 characters are an embarrassment, and not even part of their 1919 F&DS. Forward overlap is bad enough, why add the backfilp overlap too?”
That was the part of the video that I found the most confusing. I have no idea why Splane bothered to even mention what a contemporary generation was from Joseph’s perspective. Why explain that someone who died just a few hours before Joseph was born would not be considered as overlapping, which I assume draws the conclusion that someone who died just a few minutes after Joseph’s birth would be viewed as a contemporary, and then omit to represent that statement on the chart?
They would have been better off ignoring a backwards time projection altogether and only focus on a forward time projection.
However, I don’t see how they can equate their explanation to the contemporary generation depicted in Exodus 1:6. The bible’s example includes the slight overlap due to the fact that the brothers were all born over a period of time. Whereas the WTs depiction is just about anybody who lived within Joseph’s entire lifespan up to a few seconds before his birth and a few seconds after his death.
I think ‘embarrassment’ is an understatement.
OnTheWayOut:-
“The short story- There was a group of JW’s alive in 1914 whose lives significantly overlapped with JW’s later, and without any reason whatsoever (other than that time is up on their old doctrines), they are saying the two groups are one big overlapping generation, and the end will come before the second group passes away.”
I have to confess that this nearly made me spit my tea out.
I love your lacklustre approach to honorary apologetics.
Basically, you are saying that it is almost impossible to defend. It must be so embarrassing for JWs who have the task of defending this teaching in their ministry.
joey jojo:
“Trying to reason with a jw will leave you frustrated and unsatisfied.”
In my exchange I found it was the opposite. This chap was debating on a public forum and so the questions I asked him, which he was unable to answer, helped highlight just how ludicrous and out of context the Watchtower’s definition really is.
He gave up a little too easily which left me wondering if there was anything more that he failed to disclose.
dozy:-
“But to be honest – why bother trying to convince an active JW? It’s a pointless exercise.”
My objective wasn’t to convince anyone out of their faith. It was more to question them on their belief in order to highlight where their beliefs breakdown. By doing so, any rational person reading the exchange for themselves will be able to see the glaring flaw.
I have no interest in engaging with JWs for my own amusement, although I do enjoy it when they knock on my door… which is not very often these days.
Vidiot:-
“Other than servitude to an authoritarian high control group, there’s not much of an agenda… The real reason the majority of ‘apologists’ stay is because they know what kind of draconian consequences they’ll experience if they don’t.”
I’m not sure that the ‘majority’ are in it for that reason. My guess would be that most are in the religion because they fear their own mortality and struggle to cope with the realities of life.
However, I’m sure there are a good portion of them that remain among the ranks for fear of what they will lose.
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Finkelstein
The overlapping generation doctrine is the WTS/JWorg attempt to twist and embellish Jesus own words written into scripture and was done so to uphold and support the previously established doctrine of 1914.
That in itself was an act of apostasy for Jesus himself condemned his faithful followers toward making up a set a time upon god's own sacred time and really that is why most other Christian faiths have not set time like what the leaders of the Watchtower Corporation have done.
In biblical epistemology a generation was to signify or accepted as the life span of an individual, so once you past lets say 100 years you have past that generational time length.
Talk about false religion !
1914 has been a core doctrine of the JWS religion for over a 100 years and more.
If you were a baptized participating JWS and questioned the viability of 1914, you would be swiftly disbanded and disfellowshipped for apostasy by the controlling elders of the congregations. -
waton
Why explain that someone who died just a few hours before Joseph was born would not be considered as overlapping, which I assume draws the conclusion that someone who died just a few minutes after Joseph’s birth would be viewed as a contemporary, and then omit to represent that statement on the chart?
GG: They just defined the borders of "lived at the same time" during both birth and death nothing is registered, remembered at those times. and the "other , older, distant anointed " remark on the chart shows that no direct passing of the baton, conferring of secrets, or "passing the "Elijah to Elisha mantle" is involved? remember that old chest nut?so.
when you think about it the two group anointed generation is an old idea ("the 2 prophet classes" warmed over again.
Splane was not talking precision time in our time, he covered centenarians with possibly 20 years overlaps. with bapti in the first groupsm marking th anointing of the later partakers. All partook after all!.
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Finkelstein
What the WTS/JWorg. did is create their own meaning and definition of what the word usage is toward Generation.
WIki and other sources have the usually accepted definition of the word Generation...
A generation is "all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively." It can also be described as, "the average period, generally considered to be about thirty years, during which children are born and grow up, become adults, and begin to have children.
The key point to their false acclamation is that once you past the typical life span of 100 years starting from 1914, the generation of people witnessing certain events of that generation(s) ends. A new generation has now followed the previous.
What that means is that the generation of people living now and for a few years more are not of the previous generation that witnessed events starting from 1914.
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OnTheWayOut
Waton: The generation of partakers will pass away, when they are finished overlapping, at the outset of the Great Tribulation, long before all the Things have occurred.
The end will come....the outset of the Great Tribulation....Armageddon....the beginning of the end....last days
See how difficult it is to separate which one they want you to understand? Because they really don't want you to know which.
Sometime in the future, when the G.B. see it is time, they will close the gates or flee to an Island with suitcases of cash and say the Great Tribulation has started.
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Finkelstein
In short the the JWS religion was started by men who ran the Watchtower Corporation so that's why its core doctrines were falsely contrived.
The WTS/JWS have been preaching a tainted commercialized version of the gospel of Jesus for over 100 years.
The men who started this organization were false prophet apostate/charlatans.
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Diogenesister
SBF (They could) argue that this is not a central JW doctrine.
Well they certainly couldn’t argue that. Without 1914 the governing body have no authority.
Watchtowers quoted drivel really doesn’t apply because the exodus “generation” referred to is obviously the typical familial generation - in other words that generation were all the children of one man, Jacob, regardless of their ages or when they were born or died.
good rebuttal by the way OP
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Diogenesister
Sometime in the future, when the G.B. see it is time, they will close the gates or flee to an Island with suitcases of cash and say the Great Tribulation has started
Guarantee they’ll have enough in offshore accounts to have to do that OTWO. Grenada here we come!!
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amiable atheist
Overlapping Generation comprehensively explained by Goatlike Personality: