Seeking support ... Where can a Christian go

by Sevan 83 Replies latest jw friends

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  cofty

  As for evidence, 100% proof of God's existence, that will never happen. There is no way to prove the existence of God, - Sevan

  That is true. However we don't use this standard in any other area of knowledge. 100% proof is a luxury that is unique to mathematicians. In every other area we balance the available evidence against the proposition we are being invited to adopt.

  If there was, there would be no need for faith

  So faith is the thing that believers use to plug the gap when we run out of evidence. Why do we do that? Why not just admit that there is insufficient evidence to support the claims of theism? Why invent "faith"?

  If we specify which god we are talking about - the god of Jesus for example - and if we define proof as something like objective evidence beyond reasonable doubt, then I am convinced we can "prove god doesn't exist".

  Each one of us and still all of us together only know an infinitesimal amount of what there is to know in the universe.

  Although that is true it doesn't mean that there are not lots of things that we really do know for certain. On this forum there is a wealth of knowledge and experience regarding these big questions. It will be good to discuss the evidence if and when you feel ready.
  
  
  
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  Giles Gray

  Sevan-"There are posts that imply and others that directly state that believers are delusional, illogical, irrational and lacking intelligence."

  Sevan-"Frankly, there is nothing that could convert me to Atheism, so it is honestly a waste of time. I was a believer long before encountering the Jehovah's Witnesses and I will be a believer for the rest of my life."

  It's these kind of statments that athiests draw their conclusions from.

  To claim there is 'nothing' that could challenge your belief is illogical, irrational and indicates the need to believe at all costs which is delusional.
• 

  FadeToBlack

  Welcome Sevan.If you want to be completely honest, you have to be willing to consider that everything you ever believed in was wrong, and go from there. You might be suprised where it leads you. You have time, take the plunge...
  
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  Sevan

  Giles Gray, the concept that everything, in all its wonder and complexity, just got here by chance, does not and cannot make rational sense to me. That scripture about every house having a builder really hits home for me, especially when you consider that the natural world and universe is far more complex and awe-inspiring than any house.

  There are many other things I've experienced and learned over the years that informs my belief in God, but the universe and all creation is a big one.

  Now the Atheist posters here have echoed some of my own questions and issues with the Abrahamic God. Issues I had even when I was a dye-hard JW. I have tried to get help for these issues, but I am still grasping to understand why rape, murder, abuse, misogyny and slavery were allowed, even seemingly encouraged. I know that there may be a bigger picture that I am not seeing at the moment.

  Outside of the loving and self-sacrificing example of Jesus and many of the higher principles in the Bible about being peaceable, loving, humble, slow to anger, etc., my faith is on shaky ground. But that is a journey that I feel I must grapple with on my own for now. When I've thought more deeply on everything, I may be able to come back here and engage in intellectual and theological discussions.
• 

  cofty

  the concept that everything, in all its wonder and complexity, just got here by chance, does not and cannot make rational sense to me

  That is a common misunderstanding. The scientific answer to the origin of complexity is about natural selection not random chance.

  Please take a few minutes to read the following post that explains it in more detail.

  Evolution is a Fact #27 - Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc...

  There is an index to the other threads in the series at the end of the OP of this thread...
  
  
• 

  DJS

  Sevan,

  When I left the cult over 2 decades ago, I realized that my belief system, which was essentially what I inherited from my family and culture, were in need of serious re-consideration. Trying to establish my footing in a place such as this for my theism or x-tiantiy is something that never entered my mind and I would have never done. I avoided all religious and JW discussions for 2 decades, until I joined this site a couple of years ago.

  I understand we are different, but we are not so different that you shouldn't understand showing up to demand respect for a failed belief system and criticize those who rationally have deconstructed that belief system is going to cause some problems.

  Your testimonials are preaching; they are intended to influence others, so let's stop playing coy (I'm also talking to you Kate and Sanch). Calling atheists hostile is preaching. Hostile? Really? Do you still believe that your lovely Jesus and his murderous dad are going to slaughter billions of innocent people soon? Including me, all the other atheists, my GF, her family and the other 1.3 billion Indians who do not believe in Jesus, as well as the billion and a half Chinese and a few billion others who don't give a rat's ass about your beloved???

  You say you are questioning your belief system. Excellent. Until you complete that journey I suggest you listen a while, humbly, and avoid making judgmental statements about us.

  Or do you pine for the day, as the bible puts it:

  Rev. 14: (At Armageddon)

  "And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.” So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God. And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses’ bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

  Rev 21: (after the 1000 year reign)
  

  But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

  Do you believe this?
• 

  Alive!

  Hi Sevan,

  Am feeling for you.

  It was a terrible time for me when I did the unthinkable, looked the 'organisation' in the eye and thought 'this is wrong'.

  I have always sensed there was something unseen going on, before I became a JW.

  It is a rough road exiting the mind control of the organisation.

  I believe.....like I breathe.

  I'm not going to explain why or how - I just do.

  This 'sense' just won't leave me or go away....you are certainly not alone.

  The ancient writings that promise that God wills that All will be reconciled back to him.....
• 

  DJS

  Sevan,

  If, as you say, you've lurked and read a lot of posts on this site, you know that there are a lot of ex dubs here who are LGBT. They have suffered tremendously at the hands of the Dark Lords and society because of the teachings in your holly book and from xtians like you.

  Seeing people like you arrive and re awaken their pain is disgusting. That a few others agree with you or even think it ok you have them is disgusting.

  Did reading any of their accounts mean anything to you? Or do you simply hide behind Jesus" skirt and agree that all members of this community deserve death? Cause that's what the Bible says.

  My old beliefs disgust me. I did not bring them into my post dub life. Thought about that any? At all?
• 

  cofty

  DJS - I'm confused where did Sevan attack gay members of the forum?
• 

  nonjwspouse

  The emotion of the belief in God is akin, in my thoughts, to loving your chosen life mate. It is an emotional choice. One that meets your needs , and also sometimes doesn't meet those needs.

  You can always leave that life mate ( or belief in God) , nothing prevents you, except your own chosen devotion to remain connected.

  If the chosen life mate is horrific to you, you may emotionally chose to separate yourself from that person, and leave.

  If meeting your needs all the time is the most important thing to you, you may emotionally choose to leave that person (or belief in God) based on whatever is currently your need not being met.

  There are emotional ( sometimes financial) costs with each decision you make. But they are decisions that YOU make, not someone else making them for you.

  The beauty of belief is that it is yours and yours alone. You decide. As soon as another person tries to control your thoughts and beliefs, it is crossing the boundaries in your life. When someone uses personal attacks on another persons belief, then it crosses personal boundaries.

  Attacking a belief is fair game, as long as the attack is not against an individual, a person.Those that attack the individual instead of the idea or belief, are fools.
  

  It may feel highly uncomfortable to read an attack against a dearly held belief, but as long as it isn't directed at you it is not about YOU. You can choose to click the mouse, close the computer screen and read another thread.