by Sevan 83 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Sevan
I kind of understand your OP. Creation vs evolution posts can descend into slanging matches. There are lots of threads that advocate evolution and criticise religious beliefs, and few that advocate religion.
But Christians are welcome here. Neither Simon nor any of this site's administrators have said Christians (or any other religious people) aren't allowed to join and comment on this forum.
But posters need to back up their posts with evidence and sound arguments.
Did you call me dishonest? - Kate
I don't remember. I have often accused theists of intellectual dishonesty.
Please post a link so I can see the context.
Cofty, I have been searching for the post because I knew you would ask. But sadly I can't find it. The point is I know I am honest. Your allegations are unsubstantiated, and I feel attacked by you now, just because I disagree with you it doesn't mean I am dishonest.
Kate xx
Cofty, You have avoided the point. Did you call me dishonest? Is it substantiated? Making unsubstantiated allegations is attacking someone. My view of attacking people is different from yours. Your evidence does not back up your conclusions my evidence backs up my conclusions. You have not been able to refute my evidence.
Cofty, I have been searching for the post because I knew you would ask. But sadly I can't find it. The point is I know I am honest. Your allegations are unsubstantiated, and I feel attacked by you now, just because I disagree with you it doesn't mean I am dishonest.
Why does it always get to this nonsense?
Kate, from my reading of the thread you came out of nowhere with an allegation that Cofty had accused you of dishonesty and attacked you. Cofty has asked you for the example which you can't provide and now he's attacking you even more apparently. He hasn't made any allegations - how the hell can he be attacking you?
IMHO Kate you have the background that should mean you are flying the flag for theists here, able to provide a reasonable case for how belief in a God can be squared with science. Your qualifications are way above mine so I'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
Cofty may be terse sometimes but he is (IMHO) usually fair and always presents empirical evidence to support his view. Time and time again however, rebuttals end up being centred on "feelings" and unsubstantiated "reasons". Calling that out as intellectual dishonesty is not a personal attack, it's simply the truth.
You already know that you are being dishonest. I have explained the answer to your question about homochirality in considerable detail more than once and referred you to the work of a Japanese scientist who solved the puzzle. It is a common tactic of creationists to ignore an answer, wait a few weeks and then post the same objection as if it had not been answered. - Cofty
I know in my heart I am not being dishonest. I am a very honest person with integrity. Your argument is not conclusive or satisfying. Just because you are happy with your conclusions doesn't mean we all are. I don't consider myself a creationist either. I am not ignoring your answer just saying you're wrong in your perception of an autocatalyst. But the point is we are at a stalemate situation and I agree there are different interpretations of the scientific facts and there is no definite conclusion either way.`
This is the post from this thread https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5098445605961728/challenge-creationists. Your evidence is not conclusive and you cannot answer my questions.`
K99, my chemistry knowledge convinces me that the process of evolution is guided. Let's not derail this thread though. I will start a new thread.`
Kate xx
Sevan-" You are right in saying that my current concepts of God may be wrong."
Your concepts of God could also be correct. That's not the issue. To claim nothing can change 'one's' conviction of a belief when it "may be wrong" is the problem. To do so would be illogical and irrational. That's all that athiests are pointing out to believers when they make such bold claims of faith.
But it is encouraging to see that you do at least hold some reserve.
Sevan-" There are non-tangible reasons for my faith that cannot be described or explained with logic or science. To me, God just is. He is very real to me, even if I may not have all the details correct."
Faith is no advocate of truth or fact. In most cases it only misleads. Personal conviction is no reliable means of truth either.
So many 'believers' share a similar conviction to yours, but I'm sure you would disagree with millions of them when their beliefs contradict your own. How would you know their faith wasn't correct and how would they know yours wasn't?
How can you know for sure your god is the true one? He is only as real to you as Allah is to a Muslim. If they have the truth then your concept of a 'god of love' is very compromised.
Without the ability of omniscience there is no way anyone can hold a conviction of faith free from doubt, without the problem of being seen as illogical, irrational and somewhat delusional.
Sevan-"I do want to learn more about evolution, history, atheism, theism and many other topics. While those that know me consider me very well-educated, I fully accept that there are many areas that I could educate myself more thoroughly. I fully accept that some of the things I currently believe may be wrong."
I have to say that this is one of the most encouraging comments I have read on this forum in recent months. I like it because it contradicts the 'closed minded' claim that "nothing" could take away your current beliefs.
Just to point out that evolution doesn't rule out the possibility of a god. Many Christians reconcile the two and live very happily.
Sevan- "I have a lot of research to do."
I hope you thoroughly enjoy your research and are able to approach it with a fresh and open mind free from preconceptions. The best of luck to you.
Hi,
You can save yourself a lot of heartache & time by fully realizing that Jesus is the "truth, the way, the life" (I'm not saying you don't). As Christians, Paul exhorts us to gather together, but this is not necessary for salvation. Some Christians are isolated from other believers, but they still have a strong relationship with God.
The book "escaping codependent christianity" is amazing, and cant be found on amazon, used, for about $4 (shipping included).
The JWs completely hijacked our faith, so it will take time to heal. Just don't get into another cult/cult-like group!
Much love!
P.S. - I wouldn't debate atheists on here much. Any proof you send their way will be ignored. I mean, they do have some major confirmation bias going on.
I have never seen even a sliver of proof presented by theists on this forum. Never. Just wishful thinking and special pleadings mixed with a persecution complex and oh, a whole lot of whining.
Sevan - "...where can a believer, even someone who still considers themselves a Christian, go for moral support?"
Church?
DJS never left the JW.
Although the idea of god ,eternal life etc may have passed , the pathetic arrogance that derives from "i was personally chosen by god" seems to be VERY deeply inside , as most of the trainwreck comments show.
BTW, i just commented on other thread in wich you attack people resorting to insults as sexual atacks , and now here it is Preaching LGBT blabla.
Absolute Trainwreck and are people LIKE YOU DJS, that bring bad reputation to sites like this and i have NO CLUE just WTF are you still doing here with all those military /Aerospacial contacts lololololololololololol
Take Care All
