Another undeniable fact about WT's mishandling of child sexual abuse is this little nugget that was shown
last night for millions of viewers to see for themselves:
Thoughts on Leah Remini JW A&E special ...
by _Morpheus 138 Replies latest members private
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Bobcat
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Incognito
While I agree with Simon's logic that the shunner is responsible for their actions, they typically have been conditioned to not see it that way.
One may think that no one is forced to act in the manner they do. True, no one is holding a gun to a JW's head, but WT has conditioned JWs to believe the GB are God's representatives so anything the GB say, require or demand, actually is required by God.
WT/GB uses God as a weapon as it is claimed that it is God that requires various things including a JW shun their own child, often without saying so directly. If the JW does not comply, then the JW will also be in disfavour with God and so will be destroyed at Armageddon.
As most people find shunning one's own child to be so extreme and unloving, WT then further condition JWs to believe the shunning action is actually showing love and will help the child to realize their wrong actions and cause them to make required corrections so as to return and find favour within God's loving organization.
Few people will immediately change their normal behaviour after reading one book or watching one TV presentation. Conditioning and indoctrination usually take considerable time which is why the same information is repeated over and over and why question and answer sessions usually require the answers to be read verbatim from the paragraph being considered. Conditioning is insidious so that a person doesn't consciously recognize their thinking process is being altered.
There have been comments that some of the experiences from the program are not typical and are extreme. We need to consider that is some areas, congregation elders may be more laid back while in other areas, they are more regimented. The CO assigned to each area may have some influence over this. Just because we may not have experienced certain things because we haven't seen that occur in our area while we were active, doesn't mean it doesn't happen elsewhere.
While it is easy to say a JW can just walk away if they don't agree with a certain action, to walk away would require the JW to first recognize the religion is not "The Truth" and does not represent God in any way or form.
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Simon
I would rather live in a world where we hold people accountable for their own actions, true cases of mind control are few and far between. The idea that people are turned into some form of Manchurian Candidate is just too convenient IMO.
When some terrorist blows themselves and others up, they are obviously influenced by someone and some ideology but they choose to do it. Yes, they are conditioned but no one has a remote control and to excuse the JWs who do the shunning is to excuse the terrorists who do the killing.
In fact, how can we ever hold anyone to account for anything they do? Surely every action we take in life is a result of some influence at some point? Something we learned, something someone did ...
We all make choices and people need to learn to make good ones and whether it's a terrorist shooting someone, a nazi guard closing the oven door or a JW parent shunning their child, claiming "someone told me to" is a lame excuse.
No, those things are not all equal, but the same excuse for action either applies or doesn't.
Why do some chose not to kill or not to shun? Because their leaders failed to control them or because they are better people who took the time to learn the truth or were willing to stand up and take the consequences rather than pass the pain on to someone else?
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Finkelstein
Saw the show in its entirety and and it really confirms the fact that the JWS religion really fucks with people's minds, heart, emotions and conscious in a very egregious way
The intricate in depth control over people lives and social behavior is there to see and witness.
I like to commend all the people who participated in this open discussion and hope the viewing public will take notice of the personal harm of what one can expected from joining this delusional and fraudulent religious cult.
In reflection the show also brings to attention the inherent corruption created by a few men ( ie. J Rutherford ) who sought and did find their own power and control over people by using coercive and manipulating tactics. which one could correctly say were false doctrines.
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I believe in overlapping
Yes, I'm still impacted by the influence the WTS has over my family. Shortly after my fathers funeral earlier this year I attended my brothers wedding where my mother, who hasn't spoken to me for 10+ years, still couldn't bring herself to say hello.
Motherly Love, that "Unbreakable Bond"
I know what it's like. I have lived it. I also know that any amount of ranting against the WTS isn't going to convince her to change. I don't think she should get to absolve herself of guilt for what she does by claiming she 'has to' because the WTS controls her life and I don't want to help her to do that either.
This is one of the reasons why I visit sites like this from time to time. When an older person who is out of the organization, living a normal life, and admits that the Watchtower's influence over family members still impacts, I feel normal again.
I still have some family in and I get mad that they cut us off, and I feel it shouldn't bother me, but it does bother me.
It's good to know I'm not alone in how I feel. Sometimes when you think you are alone, you start thinking that perhaps I'm the one that is messed up in my thinking.
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_Morpheus
You cant dismiss personal responsibility even if you want to acknowledge the cults influance. The proof is simple. We all choose to leave. Everyone else can too, if they want. Im not saying i have no sympathy or understanding, but everyone makes their own choice and it is a choice.
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new boy
I knew Randy Follis, one of the two brothers who committed suicide. He married my daughters best friend.
Where as losing two children to suicide may not be "normal." I thought Rick Follis quote showed us were their mind set was at when he said. "one of the two of us must remain Jehovah's Witnesses or it will kill our parents."
So yes maybe this was an extreme example to use. However the point is clear thousands of people have committed suicide because of the guilt this religion has created...and how many more will die in the future because of it?
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Finkelstein
However the point is clear thousands of people have committed suicide
because of the guilt this religion has created...and how many more will die in the future because of it?
Well said New Boy
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waton
did they mention that talking to a disfellowshipped person will get you removed," handed over to satan" too?