JW Father Kills Self and 12-year-old Son (page 10)

amac

Whenever you want to continue, some of us will be here waiting for you.

What are you...on a team or something? I'll continue with anyone but you, you can't seem to grasp the topic and stick to it.

You seem to live by the code: "If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger." That's okay. I'm having a great time. Your aim isn't as good as it ought to be for somebody who claims to have been a JW for so many years.

fjt

JT

I agree that the WTS bears responsibility for placing men in the position of counselor when they have no training.

looks like you 110% correct

Paducah Sun 1-28-01
Mario Moreno, associate general counsel at the church's New York headquarters,.
J.R. Brown, public affairs director for the church,
Both Brown and Moreno said that the elders, who volunteer and are essentially untrained clergy, might err in their application of a policy

JT

What does these murders have to do with Jehovah's WItnesses?

the poster who asked this questioned asked a very powerful question indeed, but if the poster doesn't know the answer it is only due to the fact that the poster is not informed on the power and influence of High Control Groups like the WT

I would encourage the poster to take the opportunity to educate themselves on all the free and available information on jw and how their beleif system of FEAR , OBLIGATION AND GUILT affects it members

esp if the members are alreay fragile or on the edge-

the level of depression found in the avg congo is unreal considering that JW present themselves to the world of mankind as the "Happiest people on the face of the earth"

JT

But I disagree that elders everywhere

see this is what makes me laugh at posters like AMAC

no one said that EVERY SINGLE 100,000+ elders would tell a woman to stay in an abusive relationship

this poster has missed the most important aspect of the wt society

jw live by 2 rules,

1. WRITTEN

2 UNWRITTEN RULES

IN wt their is a "Culture' and "Mindset" that makes it possible for all kinds of hurtful things to exist.

in wt world the most important thing is HOW WILL THIS MAKE THE CONGO LOOK

any well trained abuse couselor knows to never ask this question

WHAT DID YOU DO TO MAKE HIM DO THIS

yet this is the very first question that the avg joe blow Cheese and Cracker Man elder will ask-

as jr brown stated:

Paducah Sun 1-28-01

Mario Moreno, associate general counsel at the church's New York headquarters,.

J.R. Brown, public affairs director for the church,

Both Brown and Moreno said that the elders, who volunteer and are essentially untrained clergy, might err in their application of a policy

so even the wt knows that they have men in charge who shouldn't be giveing out advice-

sorta like having an "Untrained Volunteer Pilot" flying your plane-

if a company puts men up in planes like that is it not reasonable to conclude that that would know there are going to be some deaths due to such untrained men

well wt is the same they know full well that these untrained men will give out bad advice-

yet as a former elder myslef your main concern if you had to chose between the PUBLISHER INTEREST AND THE SOCIETY INTEREST the publisher loses big time

due to the wt Warped interpetation of hating a divorce, it common to read an article in the wt of a sister who stayed and took 10-20yrs of ass beating

and why well ask any TRAIN COUSELOR they will tell you the victim becomes attached to the hip in many cases

have you ever heard of "You can win him over without a word"

my dear friend you have no idea of how many sisters with ass beating have been told this LINE

you see it is all about the MINDSET OF JW IN GENERAL

there is nothing healthy about being a jw

amac

JT - I'm glad that my posts are always found humorous by someone as experienced and with as much self-worth as yourself.

Let me change my quoted sentence to "I don't think it is an unwritten rule for elders to tell a sister to stay with an abusive husband."

suzi_creamcheez

Let me change my quoted sentence to "I don't think it is an unwritten rule for elders to tell a sister to stay with an abusive husband."

This sounds like a pointless circular argument. It's pretty hard to challenge an unwritten rule. Believe whatever you want amac, don't let facts, experience and logic affect your thinking.

Kudos to fjoth - you are one clever, ballsy guy!

Gamaliel

amac,

It sounds like you were trying to keep the hype down a bit and not place blame thoughtlessly on the WTS when it may have been more correct to place blame on elders and CO's who came up with the bad advice themselves. I think a lot of people have already responded that there is some blame to go around just by the fact that the WTS allows untrained "blind" guides to be in such leadership positions. Perhaps it was a CYA move, but I agree that more has been done and said about this issue lately, although for legal reasons, the WTS no longer wishes to make a strong connection between appointment of elders and centralized responsibility for their qualifications. My "step-uncle" was a Circuit Overseer who stepped down because of abuse issues that were made public about his own children. He was personally anxious that these issues would go away and recommended that the abuser and abusee stay together for the sake of the organization. (It's possible in this case that it was his own bad advice.) I believe I already stated my sister's and my father's similar situation. (In that case, the C.O. participated in the travesty of justice.) Mouthy had a similar situation.

You've made the point that there is no paper trail with unwritten rules. But surely you remember the many District Assembly experiences that often included the sister with the unbelieving spouse who kept faithful, trusting in Jehovah, and "heaping fiery coals upon the head of the unbelieving spouse" by staying with him and putting up with his violence for years and years. I also noticed that you referenced published articles that recommend that the abused spouse leave. Don't forget this advice assumes that the spouse doing the abuse is an unbeliever, and JWs are much quicker now to separate the spouse in situations like this. It doesn't address the double-standard which is at the core of the pedophilia problem and many others: that the reputation of the organization is too important to sully with the airing of dirty laundry. When something can be kept internal, there is still a good chance it will be. JR Brown has been forced into some embarrassing admissions as well as obvious cover-ups, because of this same unwritten rule.

Gamaliel

JW Father Kills Self and 12-year-old Son

amac

herk

fjtoth

JT

JT

JT

amac

suzi_creamcheez

Gamaliel

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