JW Father Kills Self and 12-year-old Son

by fjtoth 98 Replies latest social current

• 

  Special K

  Hey six of nine.. I'm walking right behind you buddy.

  Enjoy your comments Amac. But I'm not here to generalize about J.W.'s and the WTBTS.

  I'm here because I want to wrap their balls up around their ears.

  I don't know about you, Amac, but my feelings come from personal experience. You can generalize your thoughts on this matter, but I never will.

  If I was physically abusive to someone,you are the guy I would want as part of the jury that would judge me. However, I can never be impartial in this matter because my view of J.W. organization is tainted with personal experience to the contrary of what you stated above

  I watched my mother tearfully ask the J.W.'s elders for help!!!!!! from her husband who beat, kicked, threatened with knives and guns. Ram my brothers head through a wall. slam a sibblings head into a rockpile. hit with 2 x 4's and on and on and on..lock kids outside in dead of winter with summer clothes on.

  All my mother got was scriptural counsel to stay with her husband (my father) and be a BETTER WIFE. And protect Jehovahs' name. All she got from trying to be a "Better Wife" is to become a more "Battered wife".

  Her requests came twice in a ten year span and the answer to her were the same each time.

  J.W.'s let her down and they let down 6 kids to a life of severe physical, mental and verbalabuse. and then the elders continued to keep moving him up the J.W. ranks. Someone to look up to in the congregation. someone to pray on behalf of the congregation. (sickening!) I have often wondered if she ever thought of suicide and taking all us kids with her.

  I cannot generalize my thoughts that J.W.'s are really like the rest of the world.

  I'm not sure, but by being on the forum I starting to believe that a religion like this would have more physical, mental and verbal abuse just because it is such a rigid (no flexibility) type of organization. In J.W.'s CONTROL seems to mean everything to them. they teach men to Control everything. If you can't fix it.. control it. If you can't help..control it.

  If my mother would have went to social services instead of Jehovahs organization.. we kids would have been taken out of there..The problem I guess lies with elders set up as ones to lead in areas where they have no qualifications.

  A side thought as to a solution or a dream of mine would have been if WOMEN ran the religion instead of the men. What if my mother went to a body of elder women in the congregation and told them what was going on in the home. What do you think would have happened?

  sincerely

  special K
• 

  Ravyn

  Neighbors said Laura Mackey had complained of domestic problems, but indicated that nothing violent had occurred.

  ''Mrs. Mackey said the marriage had been troubled,'' Fort Lauderdale Detective Jack DiCristofalo said. ``But there was no indication that this would happen. I don't think anyone will really know why he did it.''

  Police also say the couple had been arguing for months.

  She said they'd been having domestic problems," DiCristofalo said.

  Lady Lee said:I have to wonder how many times the wife went to the elders to ask for help and was told to be a better wife. Or maybe she was too scared to go. Shelters and counseling are not recommended options for JWs.

  Victorian Sky said:It had to be premeditated, how many JW's own guns? None I know of. There had to be signs before that lead to this. I wonder if his poor wife spoke up about his issues to him or the elders or if she was in typical JW denial mode.

  "Sisters" are told not to bring reproach on God's name by calling the police, or leaving the abuser. Also "brothers" need not to be doing counseling when they have absolutely no training on domestic violence or sexual assault. This unfortunately is some of the aftermath of either not turning to a professional for help, or turning to untrained "elders" for counsel. Leslie

  amac said:However, I've noticed a couple comments that JWs tell abused wives to go back to their husbands. I've no doubt this has happened many times, but I would attribute this to the upbringing and current culture of those elders that said it, not as a directive from the WT. As long as I can remember, physical abuse was the only thing outside of adultery that the WT ok'ed as a reason to leave your mate. Knowing the elders where I grew up, they would support a sister leaving her husband due to physical abuse. It seems to me this problem should be attributed to the world society in general and it's only recent acknowledgement of the serious dangers of domestic violence. There's still a lot of backwoods folks who have some catching up to do.

  Six of nine said:I was in the organization for 37 years, and I can tell you that this is not the attitude or directive I saw and heard as a witness. Women have long been encouraged to stay with men who get physical with them. What the WT has done is make it ok to leave under horrible conditions, but of course, no one really knows when "horrible" starts. ... So yeah, it's the culture in individual congregations, but it is ubiquitous, and it is from the top down. Amac's comments are not reflective of the reality.

  Joker 10 said:What does these murders have to do with Jehovah's WItnesses? The man was an ass. And if I were to do a search on people who are a member of a chruch and who has killed others, i can guarantee I will find hundreds and even thousands before of newspaper and magazine articles before I find a murder-sucicide committed by a JW or at least an inactive W.

  amac--I was a JW for 34 years and in 28 states of the US. In every congregation I was in women were told to endure the abuse and stay with their husbands and try to be better wives. I am not saying your experience did not happen, but it was not ordinary in the Borg.

  My best friend died as a result of heart trauma from years of abuse first from her elder father and ministerial servant siblings and then from an abusive husband that she married to get out of the other situation. I was there when he picked her up by the neck and knocked her haed against the wall and then took a folding chair(from Book Study) and smashed it right next to her face on that same wall. I was there when she told the elders and I was there when the elders response was "yeah but he didn't ACTUALLY HIT you did he?" And I was there helping her pack her car and move her three kids across the country tog et away from him, and I was there when another set of elders told him where she was and told her to go 'home'. And three months later, I was NOT there for her funeral because I was afraid I would be tempted to show up with a gun myself...

  The above drama took place between Post Falls Idaho and Brattleboro Vermont. If the ignorance you speak of as being localized is true, then it is localized thru out the entire Borg. Which I think it is.

  I think all the elders of her congregation should be investigated as accessories to murder in this case, just as surely as Cardinal Law has been and the church elder in Wisconsin who suffocated the autistic boy in the faith healing session over the week end. Joker you are right about one thing--JWs are no different than any other criminals. The thing you are wrong about is that JWs feel they are above the laws and network to hide the crimes and that makes them more reprehensible.

  Ravyn, sick of all religions
• 

  SixofNine

  Special K, so sorry for your trauma. I only heard the tip of the iceberg myself; I'd have only heard that sister so and so has a black-eye, and then whispers about it's wrong, but not as wrong as breaking up a marriage... or perhaps with mildness, in the future, he'll be "won w/o a word". "Wait on Jehovah" is the mantra of Jehovah's Witnesses, and they take it to violent excess with steady encouragement from the top.

  If my mother would have went to social services instead of Jehovahs organization.. we kids would have been taken out of there..The problem I guess lies with elders set up as ones to lead in areas where they have no qualifications.

  The problem is that the organization doesn't, didn't, and isn't good enough to, teach elders to care first about individuals. The problem is with the Governing Body, and it trickles down till it's just a trickle of blood coming out of a womans body.
• 

  willyloman

  The article asked why did this happens. I'll tell you why. It's because people are suffering from depression and their not getting treated for it.

  ...and WHY are they not treated for it? In this particular case, the answer is obvious: because JWs are stigmatized if they seek professional counseling for their problems, rather than relying on the personal opinions of the elders, which are loosely (or even tightly) based on church magazine articles written at a 7th grade level and ideologically slanted.
• 

  Joker10

  There is no freakin excuse to kill your family.
• 

  Yesterdays Child

  I will never forget the phone call I got from south carolina 5 years ago. My sister was leaving an assembly in Florince SC when her witness boyfriend shot her in the parking lot then killed himself. It has forever changed our familys life. My mom has not been back to the hall since and ayear after my elder father died just not wanting to go on.
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  Shakita

  I lived two doors away from a home where there was a murder suicide. The husband shot his wife at the kitchen table, then shot himself, while their four small children were in the house. They found them there dead in the kitchen, it was so very sad. One of the four children went to kindergarten with my son. After the tragedy, the children were sent to live with the mother's sister and her family, and the house was empty for years. The father was very attentive to his children, and could be seen around the neighborhood carrying the kids on his shoulders. The mom was very active in the local elementary school, and even brought me a cake when we first moved in the neighborhood. It just goes to show you that you never know what goes on behind closed doors....until the worse happens.

  Mrs. Shakita
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  Victorian sky

  Special K and Ravyn, I am so sorry for all the pain you've both been through, it's just awful. I wonder if Mackey's wife went to the elders and what they said or did if anything. If the marriage was troubled I wonder what that means. I'm not blaming this poor woman but I'm wondering if she knew her husband had a gun in the house. Also if there was any hint of my mate being unstable I'd be outta there with my child and the elders can go hang. This just makes my blood boil that he took that innocent child with him. - V Sky
• 

  Viperinus

  Excuse the bar room psychology - but the JW belief is resurrection for all who die before Armageddon (except suicide).

  Someone who is suffering from severe depression and trying to hold together his marriage, his family, probably his job, his self-esteem within the strict confines of the JW doctrine and the scrutiny of the KH, could this be a way out. The thought of not being good enough to get thru' Armageddon and loving your family so much that you are willing to forgo the chance yourself, by killing yourself and your loved ones. At least your family will see God's New Order and *short-cut* the terrible end of this system of things - even if you won't.

  These people need help.

  Si
• 

  Panda

  Tink, Ravyn and Special K, I am so sorry you've had these tragedies in your family.

  I agree that the WTS bears responsibility for placing men in the position of counselor when they have no training. The WTS has ignored the mental needs of the other sheep since it's inseption (sp?).

  I am wondering about this family though. One article mentioned that he had become more actively religious recently. So I see this guy pushing to meet higher standards of dubdom maybe reaching out for MS or the big E. Anything to keep his wife happy. They've been fighting, he said she was cheating on him. We don't know about that yet. Killing the son was a punishment to the wife, but he [the father]selfishly ignored the kids interests completely. And the gun? I know many JWS with hand guns and many more with rifles. Heck he'd probably threatened her before with it. In fact I don't think she realized the danger her son was in because as many here have said, his threats had been made before.

  So what if she was having an affair? It seems to me that is often the reason for this type of control freak murder suicide. It's like "Ok you don't want me, you don't get my piano playing genius kid either." The congregation will make all kinds of supositions. People will begin to avoid her, because, well something bad about a woman whose husband kills himself and his child. And if she did have a boyfriend --- they'll crucify nail her.

  And as far as depression if you're a Jdub --- well my experience was that when I was going for psychotherapy and the doc put me on meds the Elders were concerned over my spirituality (I also began school at this time). My husband offered to step down. Eventually one brother elder brought up that maybe Nick needed to be removed. Thankfully he was there to hear this, and reminded them that he had offered to step down. Without the support of my husband and psychiatrist I would have eventually completed the deed. I saw many women borg who were committing passive suicide... WTS is no way to live.