JW Father Kills Self and 12-year-old Son

by fjtoth 98 Replies latest social current

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  Victorian sky

  Amac, are you saying there are rogue C.O's and elders who are stating their own erroneous opinions independent of the WTS? That's why it's called a BODY of elders, as a group they must go with what the Society says to the letter and if they dare step out of line with what the GB directs they are removed. So the damage done to the lives of JWs in individual congregations is not due to 1 or 2 bad elders or C.O's this is an epidemic problem that originates with the source - the WTS. The level of depression, guilt, denial, control by fear is rampant in the worldwide 'brotherhood'. I'm not saying the GB made this sick man pull the trigger but could the high pressure life of a JW lead to this? Absolutely. - V Sky
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  livingagain

  I remember an article on wife battering in an Awake/Wt. It was the cover story. Seems it was about 1-3 years ago and the article talked about how this unbelieving man had beat and abused his wife for some 25 years of marriage but he eventually listened to her and became a JW. I was so mad when I read that article I could have spit nails, to think that they could actually think that this was good. Their family stories always end like "once upon a time" and all ends well. What a piece of crock. If someone can find that article please post it here.
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  blondie

  Livingagain, here are some others. I couldn't find that one exactly.

  yb93

  pp. 179-180 Honduras/Overcoming Obstacles

  Of course, few manage to serve Jehovah without facing serious obstacles and problems. When Emilia first heard the Kingdom message in 1967, she was already married, though not happily. At first she did not take the truth seriously. But when she began to do something about it, her husband threatened to throw the sister who studied with her out of the house. Emilia said firmly: "If you throw her out, we will study in the street." One day Emilia stopped at the bar where her husband was drinking to let him know that she was going to the meeting. He was waiting on the corner when she returned and began to shout at her, publicly calling her a prostitute.

  Despite such indignities and even beatings, Emilia decided to get baptized. And in spite of 20 more years of constant opposition, she trained the children. From when they were very small, she taught each one a Bible presentation to practice among the shrubs and flowers in the garden. Was it worth all the work? Of her eight sons, two are now ministerial servants and two are regular pioneers. What of Emilia’s husband? He finally accepted a Bible study—with one of his own daughters, a regular pioneer!

  ***

  yb90 p. 64 Countries Under Ban ***

  One country in Asia has been under ban for 13 years. During the past service year, the brothers have been experiencing increased opposition. Yet, they have had a 10-percent increase in publishers and a new peak of home Bible studies.

  In this country a Bible study was started with the wife of a military officer. She and her five children soon started attending meetings. Strong opposition from her husband began; he even beat her with his army belt. As the harsh opposition continued, the woman endeavored to practice the Christian principles she had learned. Eventually, the consistency of her good Christian conduct made a deep impression on her husband. He has since retired and is now studying the Bible with one of our brothers.

  ***

  yb83 pp. 12-13 1983 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses ***

  Finland reports how one sister experienced a lot of opposition from her husband, yet remained firm for the truth and was rewarded. "On many occasions he beat me black and blue. Once he hit me so hard that I lost consciousness. On another occasion he held a pistol at my temple, threatening to shoot me. But some time later my husband had a change of heart. Not only did he accompany me to the 1982 district convention where I was baptized, but later, when visiting some of his relatives in Sweden, he showed them copies of The Watchtower and Awake!, saying, ‘These are good magazines. We hope you would like to read them, too.’ Now I am hoping that my husband will take the final step for the truth."

  ***

  w82 7/15 p. 7 How Marriage Survives the Assault ***

  A husband in Korea used to beat his wife when he was under the influence of alcohol. His wife did not seek to end the relationship, even though life was difficult. To her, the goal of a happy marriage was worth aiming for. Hence, unilaterally, she followed the Bible’s counsel, particularly its advice to wives that they cultivate "the quiet and mild spirit, which is of great value in the eyes of God."—1 Peter 3:4.

  For eleven years she endured. Was it worth it? Yes, because eventually her husband was moved to look into the guidebook for himself. Why? If you asked him, he would answer that his wife’s "quiet and mild spirit" moved him to find out the secret of her fine conduct. He saw the wisdom of the Bible’s advice and changed his ways.
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  berylblue

  Those stories (wives enduring beatings) are sickening.

  First, how do any of the readers know they are true?

  Second, how often does that happen, a husband realizing the evil of his ways, and turning to God the WTS? One time in a million?

  Never mind that she or the children may have been killed during those long years of abuse. They must endure for the sake of Jehovah's good name a possible new recruit.

  Only an abused woman knows the complete and total fear one lives in each and every moment of her life. Do all the right things, live in fear, stay quiet when necessary, live in fear, keep the kids quiet, live in fear, keep the house clean, live in fear, go to the KH, live in fear.....

  Oh, and make sure to grit your teeth and close you eyes while you are forced to have sexual relations with this bastard who has been abusing you and your children. Because, since you stayed in the relationship, you have to give the man "his due". You want to talk truly pathetic? It's having to have sex with someone who abuses you constantly and pretending to enjoy it.

  To the WTS, a man's due from his wife is complete and total relative submission Whatever he wants, she must do, unless it's something God the WTS wants. Then she has to do that. But only then. She is not permitted a say in her own life. Why should she? She is obviously an inferior creature in the eyes of everyone, from Jehovah down.

  If he kills you, so what? You will have remained a good Christian to the death; you will be resurrected.

  It's not only the Catholic church which canonizes martyrs.
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  berylblue

  I haven't responded to any other threads because I first wanted to find my WT CD to see what published information I could find on this from the WT to try to determine further if the attitudes described by the personal experience of some on this thread are from the WT or society as a whole.

  Amac, save yourself the trouble. Anyone with a brain knows the answer to that one.
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  Gamaliel

  What does these murders have to do with Jehovah's WItnesses? The man was an ass. And if I were to do a search on people who are a member of a chruch and who has killed others, i can guarantee I will find hundreds and even thousands before of newspaper and magazine articles before I find a murder-sucicide committed by a JW or at least an inactive W.

  Joker10, I think the point has been made, but I think that JW elders are not trained as well in handling psychological issues. Some other religions with ordained ministers have them trained in psychiatry. My sister was raised in the "Truth" as I was. She was beaten so often I had to threaten the guy myself, even though I had already DA'd. My sister wanted to leave him, but my own father, one of the elders, recommended that she not leave him, but pray more, "draw closer to Jehovah", and become more active in service even though she was already pioneering (?!?!?!). My father and the other elders always told her it would bring reproach on the congregation if this ever got to outside authorities. Because the issue remained for a couple years, the Circuit Overseer got involved and gave the same recommendations. I have no idea what happened in this case, but the point you are trying to make about thousands of murder-suicides might not be as strong as you think. There are many cases that the WTS has successfully buried. One of my friends at Bethel was surprised in his new role in the Public Relations dept that there were something like 19 murders by JWs in his first year. Each one of these cases requires that communication open up between the local congregation and the Society so that in many cases they are disfellowshipped before trial or their relationship with JWs is minimized based on their recent activity. (The PR dept is also very careful to make sure the local elders appear to be the spokesmen rather than the Society itself.) As a JW I worked in prisons, conducting studies and even meetings, and we often met prisoners who had been and still considered themselves to be JWs. Also, one of my friends in the Writing Dept at Bethel, said he cringed every time we published the idea that JWs were better than Catholics with respect to crime, because he knew that "we were just as bad." Religion itself is usually a mitigating factor against divorce, family violence and crime compared to the general population, but the difference is often shown in studies to be much smaller than you might guess. (Religions have a tendency to maintain obsolete attitudes about submission of women and children that often backfires.) I have other reasons to think JW's might be about as bad as many other Christian religions, based on the number of JWs I know who suffer from depression and the constant measuring of spiritual worth based on specific works, peer pressure and guilt. Gamaliel
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  sf

  Whoa avengers!!! That's pretty awesome creativety my friend. Scary too!

  Someone in the thread has posted that THE LEDGER is IN NEED of stories and EXPERIENCES in The Aftermath of Suicide.

  Many of you have posted some excellent insights here that, in my opinion, would be excellent material for GARY WHITE to view and become 'armed' with.

  His email and phone number have been posted for 'easy access'. Please, I implore those, such as blondie, frank and gam to SUBMIT WHAT YOU HAVE POSTED HERE TO HIM IMMEDIATELY.

  Guns and jws don't mix!! There is much more to this then you'll probably ever hear from the media.

  Pehaps with what you submit, Gary can and will focus more on the suicide rate in jw church. Not to mention that they practically corner the market on anti-depressants.

  But why?? Let the probing begin.

  sKally, sweet dreams Brian klass
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  sf

  This, in fact, is the post I was referring to; by Frank:

  A Follow-up Item in the The Ledger of Lakeland, Florida, found at:
  http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?SearchID=73145424609743&Avis=LL&Dato=20030826&Kategori=NEWS&Lopenr=308260307&Ref=AR

  Published Tuesday, August 26, 2003
  
  

  HELP US
  Stories We're Working On

  Here are some of the articles and features that Ledger writers and editors are preparing. Each item tells readers how to call or write.
  
  SUICIDE
  
  The Ledger is planning a series of articles focusing on the aftermath of suicide. We hope to talk to family members of people who have died by suicide in order to explore the stages of grief and recovery the survivors have experienced. Please contact features writer Gary White at 802-7518 or [email protected].

  _________________________________________________________ Thank you.
• 

  amac

  Sixofnine -

  Sorry, no. It completely supports my point. The problem is and has been, from the top down.

  Here's a quarter, go buy a realistic perspective amac.

  Sorry to say that a smug attitude does not make you right. Seeing how your rebuttal consists entirely of "Sorry, no. It completely supports my point" then I guess you have no argument and we'll leave it at that.

  fjtoth -

  You really are naïve, amac.

  And you really are a jackass. Not only because of your nonsensical post and absurd theory based on unfounded assumptions, but also because of your goofy picture. (If you can throw empty, condescending insults then I can happily return them.)

  I was able to follow your post until this part which makes no sense:

  If, as you claim, they are "most likely" influenced by "society as a whole," what about the elders lower down in the Society's hierarchy? If COs are giving advice that originates in "society as a whole," who can you point to within the organization who are doing better?

  In answer to the rest of your post, I'm not trying to get the WT off the hook. I know they are responsible for all the bad advise coming from the elders. But I disagree that elders everywhere will tell an abused wife to stay with her mate. Again, I haven't had time to dig up my WT CD to look up all that is published on this, so I can't really continue my argument beyond my personal experience of being a JW for 29 years and ALWAYS understanding that a wife could and should leave an abusive husband.

  Victorian Sky -

  Amac, are you saying there are rogue C.O's and elders who are stating their own erroneous opinions independent of the WTS?

  No. Pistoff said that in relating his experience of a CO who sarcastically inferred a contrary opinion to the article from the WT. I simply replied saying that would support my original statement. I have no reason to think Pistoff would lie about his experience, so I believe it.

  Blondie -

  Thanks for posting those articles. A good reminder of how retarded the WT can be. Knowing how contradicting the WT can be, did you happen to look up any articles about abuse in the WT or Awake and what people should do when faced with this? I post at work and do not have a WT CD available. If I dig mine up at home I might be able to support my argument.

  berylblue -

  Amac, save yourself the trouble. Anyone with a brain knows the answer to that one.

  Ohreally. What a compelling argument. I guess I should forget about looking stuff up and just ask people with a brain...like you. Do people "with a brain" not have to look stuff up because they are so smart? I feel like I have been exposed to a new level of intelligence! Sorry, I have to go and befriend more people with a brain who can just tell me all the answers I need!
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  SixofNine

  Sorry, I have to go and befriend more people with a brain who can just tell me all the answers I need!

  Rockin' good news!