Election Post-Mortem (page 8)

notsurewheretogo

Do you realize the contradiction in your comment? You want Trump to be cozy to Putin while acknowledging his tyrannical behavior and danger to the world?

Where did I say I wanted Trump to be cosy to Putin? I just said he was...more than Hilary. There is less chance of the US and Russia warring with Trump...but the caveat with that for Europe is will Trump still play ball with NATO...Hilary would have...but those concerns are for us Europeans...as from a US standapoint many are saying Trump was the lesser of two evils...a fact which I agree with.

Simon

For anyone who thinks Trump "might not be that bad" or is really "no worse than Clinton", this is a sobering piece that you should read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004

It's not what Trump will do, it's what domino's he knocks over and what his messages set in motion elsewhere - because of what he's said he won't do and what agreements he's said he will renege on..Ironically, the very thing he claimed made other people stupid when dealing with foreign affairs.

NATO is one of the most important partnerships that's ensured peace in North America and Europe for many decades. He's undermining it to the extent that it could all unravel and that would be a very ugly future for everyone.

He's also likely to drive countries like Iraq more towards an emboldened and reverting Russia rather than closer to the US (yes, as potential allies - shouldn't that b the goal?).

He's dangerous even if he does nothing bad himself, because he's an idiot that says stupid things of significance on the world stage. Not "might" say stupid things, already has.

LoveUniHateExams

@Village Idiot - notsurewheretogo was merely saying that America under Trump is much less likely to go to war with Russia than America under Clinton.

This is all about Syria.

Clinton said she wanted to remove Assad; Trump said he wanted to bomb the shit out of ISIS.

As we all know, Putin's Russia is on the side of Assad. Hillary's plan would likely have led to conflict with Russia - highly undesirable.

Probably Hillary said she wanted to remove Assad and bomb the shit out of ISIS but that's not possible.

Trump at least had the foresight and guts to pick the right side there ...

prologos

LUHE: "This is all about Syria.

read the Huffington post article Simon linked, it could be about the greater millions that will be touched by possible Trump isolationism effects in Europe's Baltics, , Georgia, the Ukraine.

LoveUniHateExams

Thanks prologos - I'll read the linked article.

I was just saying that where Clinton and Putin would have likely fallen out (and where Trump and Putin likely won't) is the situation in Syria.

Yes, despite Stop The War's general silence on this matter, Putin's warmongering in Eastern Europe is a danger.

LoveUniHateExams

Yes, read the linked article. I agree with the writer's criticism of Trump and possible knock-on effects.

I'm slightly uneasy at the writer's willingness to lump Trump's election with Brexit, however.

After all, NATO and the EU did nothing while Putin invaded and annexed Crimea from Ukraine, did they?

Somehow, I don't think Putin gives a crap about NATO or the EU.

The writer's unwillingness to consider why people make these rash decisions (Trump's election, Brexit) was very disappointing.

Simon's OP was much, much better in this regard - decent comments that showed a willingness for honest, open reflection on the recent disastrous election result.

LoveUniHateExams

Re Trump, Putin and NATO, here's another columnist's view:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3925854/Why-Trump-s-row-Nato-make-Britain-stronger-President-s-pledge-cut-militaey-spending-force-EU-nations-control-defence-writes-STEPHEN-GLOVER.html

redvip2000

The democrats have, for far too long, pandered to political correctness and minorities beyond equality. When it comes to Islam, nothing "it" can do will cause them to ever condemn it or label it for what it is. Yet any minority issue is blamed on "whitey". Not only that, but "whitey" was ignored (in states that were just assumed to vote for her) and outright insulted in others.

Incredibly, it turns out that it is the Dems that have been failed by the regressive left, and it is they who have to shift to a more moderate position on calling things for what they are. Dare I say that now that they have had a chance to take the temperature of the country, they will probably do that. It is a tricky dance to walk the fine line of trying not to offend anybody while not pleasing everybody.

Alostpuppydog

I have to say one of the few doctrines I agree with the WTBTS is that gov't is just so damn corrupt. Though I didn't need them to convince me not many others for that matter. But you know these people putting all their faith and trust in hope in Trump, I think are going to be vastly dissapointed. He only has 4 years to erode decades if not a century of countinual brainwashing of the left. And even the right has too-many-to-count problems of their own. From studying history and on from what I read on Rome, seems we are doomed to repeat ourself here because nobody will admit we are a modern-day mirror of the Roman Empire.

I hope we don't crash and burn too hard but my hopes aren't very high...

bohm

It's not what Trump will do, it's what domino's he knocks over and what his messages set in motion elsewhere - because of what he's said he won't do and what agreements he's said he will renege on..Ironically, the very thing he claimed made other people stupid when dealing with foreign affairs.
NATO is one of the most important partnerships that's ensured peace in North America and Europe for many decades. He's undermining it to the extent that it could all unravel and that would be a very ugly future for everyone.
He's also likely to drive countries like Iraq more towards an emboldened and reverting Russia rather than closer to the US (yes, as potential allies - shouldn't that b the goal?).

This hits the nail on the head. Trump has promised to do all kinds of crazy shit and in particular cast doubt about what he will do. It is that uncertainty which is dangerous: if everyone knows NATO will go nuclear apeshit at the first given chance over even the most insignificant piece of land (as were the case during the cold war under eg Reagan) there is no reason to test that. Now that trump is like: hum dum, how much are they paying? That is an open invitation to see what will actually happen for eg putin. On top of that, by all accounts trump cant hold his shit together when a comedian sayes his father was a monkey, how are he going to handle real opposition from a smart diplomatis team who tries to trigger him?

Election Post-Mortem

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