by seven006 105 Replies latest jw friends
Kurt leaned over the table a little bit and looked me right in the eye. He said "Dave, you are one of the smartest guys I know, but I have to ask you this question." (Here it comes folks). "do you really an honestly believe, that the whole world is in a world of shit, because a talking snake, told a naked lady, to eat a piece of fruit"?
Worldly folks are the greatest aren't they?
Boy, I know that no one will like me after this but, I must give my honest take on CH.5. It seems to me that whenever divorced folks talk about their EX's and how miserable the marriage was the Ex is always the major villain because of XYZ reasons. So the "bitch-witness-as-wife" is surely only half the story.
Here was a good looking JW male who could provide for her "cute butt." A man with sexual experience and soon to be her husband ... it would be almost impossible for her NOT to let her own natural desire come forth. Most jws I know who had premarital sex did not go to the elders. Since you were getting married in a few weeks there was no reason to rush to Reno. She wasn't pregnant. She should have had her wedding. But that's hind sight. And Reno was easier, right?
She sounds like a lonely woman. Someone who never knew she could reach for self fullfilment, the way her husband had with his business. She was stuck at home with kids and being a dub. No matter the gilding the cage is still the cage. If she turned her "cold back" to you then you had a hand in that too. I mean obviously her back wasn't always turned (you had 2 kids). She figured the only thing you wanted from her was sex. You never bothered to ask her about who she was. And did you ever even tell her "No honey lets just do the wedding you've dreamed of your entire life rather than the easy Reno route." ???
So creative work for you and nothingness for her? She had no chance being raised a dub to even consider an education. If she loved Bride's magazine well who knows she could've gotten into advertizing or design , or should I even say it graphic design or CAD work or so many things. Or if you wanted a stay at home wife how about a trip to a spa for a week? And talk on the phone? This girl didn't know her potential except for her sex appeal. When her husband lost interest in romancing and flirting with her, well ok at least he pays the bills, pretty soon you are room mates. And not good friends at all because you don't even talk.
I know your story is truely heartbreaking, but for who? Those 2 little boys? Yes. The husband? Yes. The wife? Yep her too? The venom you saw from early on had an anecdote. As the adult in the situation all you saw was a desire to be fulfilled. What she saw was the excitement of adult life shared with a real man. AND she probably suspected you of being unfaithful because you had previously exibited an active libido. SO she felt cast aside and she probably hoped you somehow "see"" it.
Well, like I said no one will like me after this but someone had to describe the Emperor's clothes.
Dave,
I'm enjoying this story more than General Hospital, All My Children and Days of Our Lives.
Panda,
If you read through the post again I don't think you will find one place I called my ex-wife a bitch. You will also see where I put a lot of the blame on the JW religion as well as my own immature age and clueless state in life at the time.
I did not make her go to Reno and get married. That was the direction we both received from the three elders, the farmer, the TV repair man, and the retired lumber Jack. The only one who advised us against it was her disfellowshipped step dad. He was a wise man.
At 21 you are too young and too clueless as a JW male to look beyond the mesmerizing draw of a perfectly shaped woman's butt. I can now, but I'm not 21 years old and a clueless JW boy any more.
I don't want to get into the details of how rotten my ex-wife treated me and continues to do. I got over all that disaster a long time ago, she hasn't. I even married her five years later so that I could raise my boys. It lasted just a little under a year.
I didn't know how to be a good husband. She didn't know how to be a good wife. The JW's did not "encourage" marital concealing back then. They left marital problems in the hands of janitors, TV repair men, and retired lumber jacks.
No matter how bad it got between her and I, she is still the mother of my three sons. They lover her and that's all I care about. She never has returned that sentiment about me.
My ex-wife recently remarried a non JW man. My boys say he's a nice guy, makes good money, and is mesmerized by her beauty. This is the kind of woman that dresses up an puts on all her makeup to go to a 7/11 store. She has also gone throngh a lot of counseling and she has told me she now takes medication to control her anger. I have seen her once in the past three years when my our grand daughter was born eight months ago. I wish her all the happiness in the world.
As far as my creative job, it's just what I chose to do with the talent I was born with. (Don't tell any of my clients but, I have never spent a day in college except to lecture or teach.) I am completely self taught. She didn't want to work when we were married. She wasn't much of a wife but she was a great mother when the kids were young, that's what she wanted to do.
Your tongue lashing is understandably received and accepted.
Life goes on.
Dave
You're a wonderful storyteller, honest and compassionate.
Now I have a sudden urge to do buttock-enhancing-exercises.
this is also a terrible tease - cough up the end already!
Panda,
Your 'tounge lashing' as Dave describes it, may have been the flip side or perhaps an attempt at showing it 'takes two to tango' BUT when you said this;
***The venom you saw from early on had an anecdote. As the adult in the situation all you saw was a desire to be fulfilled. What she saw was the excitement of adult life shared with a real man.***
You went over the edge, period.
Who do you think you are? I think you displayed a crass disregard for the content of what Dave wrote. I saw none of the self agrondizing, see how bad she was, that you seem to infer.
I feel for any man who does not live up to YOUR expectations.
Danny
Danny my bear friend,
What Panda said didn't bother me at all. Some times we look through the blurry glasses of our own past experience. That's how I read her comments and her anger is very understandable.
I did spend some time in my life as a total ass. I don't try to hide it or sugar coat it. It's all a part of being honest with yourself. I'm just sorry for it and I have learned from it. JW women had it a lot worse than JW men. At least we weren't treated like mindless furniture.
Take care,
Suzi,
I don't want this to be seen as flirting " I don't flirt", but, the beauty of a woman dosen't always sit on her butt. As I get older, I have learned to see the beauty of a womans mind first. Then I look at her butt.
Dave
Wren,
Are you the girl who use to hang out with my little sisters and now lives in Alaska?
I did spend some time in my life as a total ass. I don't try to hide it or sugar coat it. It's all a part of being honest with yourself
And I was just gettin to like you in your 5 part story........you rotten bastard!
Dave......this task you have taken has turned out quite intresting my friend. You have taken many examples that ones here have gone through in their lives.........and put it into perspective for others to see with all the ends tied together. To slowly see how ones fades from a cult is intresting to others, and especially to current dubs and ex-dubs.
I wish I would have kept a daily diary of each day since I left the Organisation as I'm sure it would be intresting to share with others and remind yourself of how it all happeened in sequence. I'm glad you have the brain to remember the details. If I had lived your life with my memory and had to tell it.............your story would have only been one part long and 1 page long. Damn funny tobacky anyhow
BTW.....I have really enjoyed this.
Gumby
Gumby
Dave, Nope those weren't my,
own blurry glasses of past experience
That's simply how I read your part five. My take on your writing was because previously you'd explained your entire Bethel experience with excellence. You moved me along like I was right there with you . We had similar experiences at WT Farms for 2 days. So I assumed that Part 5 was as honest. I hope you understand that you truly did depict your ex as a bad person and continue to say she was a bad wife. While qualifying your statement saying that you were a bad husband doesn't really work does it? It's as if since you admit it that you're a better person.
I'm assuming that since you did not listen to elders when dealing w/ your first wife (as your girlfriend), that to run off to Reno because the plumber and butcher and candlestick maker told you to get married as quickly as possible, well seems suspect. "As quickly as possible" might well have been the few weeks until your wedding.
For my own marital experience, when I got out of my Catholic HighSchool I was already engaged to my boyfriend (just out of college at 22) who was not Catholic. 3 months later we were married in the Catholic church because I wanted the white dress, veil, tuxedo attired family ,and everything. My then fiancee and I paid for everything we had both worked during the class year and for the summer before the wedding) except the food at the VFW my Dad got that. It was all very ethnic and fun. Some school friends came by and didn't know we were getting married that day so they went out and came back with fruit. It was a real celibration. We were both so excited about getting married, well it was just fun. And last weekend we celebrated our 30th anniversaryyippee!!!
So the saddness of your second wife probably ran deeper than missing her big wedding. She was probably more ashamed than you too since dubs claim to value virginity (which is so stupid and comes from nomadic people) as some proof of fidelity ---whatever.
So anywaydid this girl have a clue what marriage was about? At least you had been married before and knew a little something more than wife#2. I guess that you both loved one another very much at first. And when 2 people are planning the big day there's already a feeling of security. That girl didn't have to be the person you hated.
Just an example: When I was leaving the jws I started by fading and going to college. Nick, then an Elder "encouraged me not to give up just because of people. I explained that wasn't the problem and I wasn't giving up but didn't he ever question anything? To my complete shock he said yes there was something and we talked about that for awhile. I then told him about CoC andwithin a few weeks I saw him pick it up and take it to the "reading room." He stepped down as an Elder. As a result other friends came over to find out what was happening. After I DA'd 5 others left. All from the same congregation.
So despite the early years of fighting and loving.Which is typical of highly charged marriages, Years serving WTS. More years just us. So I'm saying that my marriage glasses aren't blurry. I've told friends when their husbands are cheating on them and other stuff I won't bore you with. I also told a friend it was time for a divorce and her cheatin' man was shocked. I also told a young doctor friend about his wifes paramour who threatened to kill another friend if she ever told. So I told. Because no one deserves to be treated that way.
Maybe being with Nick makes it easier to see men or women who arn't like him. Yeah I think that's it. Or maybe my glasses are blurred rose colored by Nick and quite clear when it comes to anyone else, Yeah that's what I'm talking about.
