Glad to see you've decided to continue Dave. I know what it's like when people on the board start attacking a personal aspect of one's life. It's tough not to let one's inability to open up to others' experiences get to us. I've kept quiet thus far and have enjoyed reading your experience. Can't wait for part 6!
My two week consulting trip to Bethel (the beginning of the end) Part 5
by seven006 105 Replies latest jw friends
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shotgun
Panda
I took a little time to look through your past posts and your attack seems a little out of character....You mention in your posts how the forum is a place of healing for you and for all of us. A chance to open up and express our feelings and try to help each other in different ways.
One of thoses ways is by sharing intimate details about ourselves which often does not paint us as a person we may look back on with much pride, yet that's who we were at the time.
Dave's account is part of his, mine and your healing if you want it to be. I'm sure you noticed all the comments from the forum thanking him for sharing his life so openly. From your years as a Catholic and a Dub especially, you could have applied the scripture to settle a matter privately first.
Why didn't you PM Dave if you had such strong dislike of Chapter 5 or at least not turn it into a rant.
Cheezes Panda please never attend a support group for AA or visit a person who has contemplated suicide because you may mean well but all that comes across is the mean part.
Go back and read your own earlier posts, I want that Panda back.
Dave don't let one person sway you unless that's what you really want.......Remember the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few...I can't remember if I heard that at an Assembly.....OH yeah it was Spock when he shut down the Warp core breach.
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seven006
Deleted because this whole thing was getting stupid.
Dave
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shotgun
I had kinda figured you were a smart ass..you and Freddy Brown shoes
The point from myself and my perspective is that I have been unable to tell anyone my thoughts and feelings for a long time now because my family and so called friends are all dubs. Every time I've been open and honest it comes back to haunt me when an elder drops a bomb and repeats word for word what I've shared with someone in confidence....it's to the point now I don't share too much.
You have certainly come along way and hopefully some day soon I'll be able to share without fear of crucifiction or even caring what others say.....but as of right now it still pisses me off when I see someone persecuted for being honest....even if it doesn't bother them.
Anyway...enough of this stupid BS from me....You miserable prick get back to your story.
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Valis
Dave...its the hardest things to not be with your kids and the moment you leave is a horrible one. I can relate. I assume that your writing experience has been on of catharsis for you and not one that just brings all the pain back to the fore. Thanks again for writing this and sharing your story.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
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Winston Smith :>D
Hi Dave,
Great job of writing your story. Since I was choked up reading your story, I'm guessing that you may have teary-eyed wrting some parts of this.
Thank you for your candor in writing about your short-comings in the past. It's refreshing to see someone write about themselves even if it means putting their past actions in a bad light. That candor certainly isn't present in the WTS literature. It's a great contrast to see so called 'apostates' do just that.
If you have time to finish it in the future when you can make some time available, I would really appreciate it; and it appears that most others would also. I am curious to see how you have grown from the experiences you depicted in Pt 5.
Winston.
*edited to delete non-relevant material in P.S.*
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Victorian sky
Seven, damn it you made me cry at work.Please tell me, how are your sons now? Are they okay? Are they happy? I don't know what Panda's problem is but I was blown away by all that you went through, very moving story. And as a woman, I'm impressed by your candor and how you accept responsibility for your role in your marriages. Lord, it all sounded so painful. I felt so sorry for your first wife, do you know whatever happened to her? Love the question your friend Kurt asked, I laughed out loud (co-workers looked at me like I've lost it, first tears now laughing, yep it's monday, I'll be okay on Friday) Even though I believe in God, loved Kurt's question. I'm printing your experience for my brother to read (he's 18 and inactive as well) what you shared will really help a lot of people to work through their own doubts and hopefully have the courage to be honest with themselves and leave. Hope you write that book. - V Sky
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Big Tex
The few times I've really opened myself up, the big thing I was afraid of was that someone would attack or pick out some fine point to niggle over. It's tough because when you've opened youself up, you're kind of vulnerable and words that wouldn't be any big deal normally suddenly become enormous and painful. It's not that I mind criticism, but there is a time and place.
Dave, I applauded your honesty. It was painful but it was also true. There are not many people who would speak so candidly about themselves as you have. That takes guts.
I'm glad you're going to finish. I'd hate to see this experience end on a sour note for you. Write it when you're ready. We'll still be here.
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Inquiry
((((Dave))))... thanks so much for sharing that with all of us..... you make yourself very well understood, and your wonderful sense of humour and your intelligence shines right through... thanks again...
Panda... I think you've got your knickers in a knot over nothing... when I read Dave's account... Twice... I didn't see what you thought you saw... I saw the price both Dave and his second wife paid for having "faith" in the WT, being ill equipped as partners and miserable together... Dave did tell both sides of that story... I think most of us got that point... It is interesting to note that Dave answered you rather nicely... explained himself and you came at him again.... Why would you be so interested in grandstanding on this? Dave's story is about Dave... not about what you think about Dave, his ex... or anything... it's not about you... at all...What would you do if you found out his description of his ex is perfectly accurate? I hope your just having a bad day... but really... have you heard the saying "Thou doest protest too much"?
Inq
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seven006
OK, the project I'm working on is rendering so I have a few minutes to respond. First of all I don't know when I will find the time to finish this. Actually this little journey of mine isn't over just as it isn't for most people until they turn your flat lined heart monitor off or you wake up dead in your bed.
Second is, this is hard to write, not necessarily because of the bad memories of my life as an idiot but also because writing is the hardest thing I try to do. As I mentioned before, I'm dyslexic and have been my whole life. What's in my head gets screwed up on it's way through the 6th grade grammar box in my brain and it screws it up even more on the way to my confused little fingers and sticky keys on my keyboard that I have smashed with my fists a few hundred times before. I kick ass in public speaking and talk without mispronouncing a word. I have a little brain glitch. Iv accepted that and I deal with it the best I can. So when someone says something negative about something I wrote the main thing that bothers me is having to battle my keyboard to respond in a manner that looks half way intelligent. It comes out like I am somewhat of a smart ass. Well, I am, but I don't always mean to be. It's the frustration of the brain glitch showing through.
I would like to thank those who tried to help out by giving their opinions about what Panda said. As I do myself a lot, sometimes you just don't understand what a person is trying to say on DB because of one reason or another. I have my reason and others have theirs. I think I understand why Panda said what she did, but I don't understand her second response. Frankly, I don't care. We all have issues in life. I try not to let peoples individual issues get to me. I learned a long time go, and am still learning, not to take things so personal. I think that comes from being raised in a socially and intellectually inclosed plastic bubble.
I was serious when I said I have started to write a few books in the past but this brain glitch stops me every time. It's damn hard work for me. I was also serious that if I do decide write this story out, starting as a kid growing up in a JW family and end it with a journey of self discovery and realization of personal stupidity I will title it "My life as an idiot.
If there is one thing I have learned through all this is to try and be completely honest with myself. That includes realizing my mistakes, stupidity, and screw ups and trying to learn something from them. That is why this is expressed in the manner it is. I spent half my life lying to myself, it's a tough habit to break. But when you do break it, you tend to ask yourself "why in the hell did I ever do that"?
If you can admit your screw ups and put them right in front of your face to stare you right in the eyes it forces you to see them for what they were and are. Only if you can get to that level of honesty and pull open your emotional trench coat for everyone to see the naked honest truth can you move on to the next level of doing something about it. If you can get to that point, you can start to fix it. Things are hard to fix if you don' t know or can't accept that they are broken. The JW's have their own version of "honesty". Iv spent years trying to redefine what honesty, love, and responsibility mean outside of the JW programing. I'm still working on it.
I am not a martyr nor am I getting any kind of emotional stroking for writing all this. It just seemed like the time and place to do it. I quit posting on this board a while back because I just didn't care to deal with the squabbling and people who live to argue and never admit they are wrong about anything. Craig has become a good friend over the past two years, even before he came to this board. Craig, Alan F. Farkel, myself as well as a few other exJW's who I respect and are "at times" looked at as some of the more informed people in JW issues have discussed a lot of these things I have brought up in this thread. Craig, in a phone call a week ago "encouraged" ( I still hate that word) me to write about my experience.
I want nothing from anyone, I'm not selling anything here. I'm just giving my thoughts on a subject that we all came to this board to discuss. If you get something out of what I say than great. If not then simply don't read it. I just hate the lies of JW religion and I hate the fact that Iv only seen my mom 3 times in 19 years because of that religion. It pisses me off and I am starting to fight back.
I'm not mad at Panda or anyone else, I do respect her opinion and I tried to tell her that. I'm not going to invite her to my next birthday party at Chucky Cheese, but that's just the way it goes.
End of speach.
Victorian sky,
My sons are doing great. My oldest is now 24 and has a 8 month old daughter who I am currently trying to teach how to make fart sounds with her little tongue. Abe, my 20 year old just got back from five mounts in Texas doing a little boot camp and Air force training and is headed off to college next week. My youngest is a senior in high school and lives with his mom and thinks I'm an ATM machine. They are all out of the religion and very well adjusted young men.Well, back to the old drawing board.
Dave